Toggle stowage

[PhreeZone 20]

I'm opening this up to anyone out there that has ideas for me on the best way to stow the excess break line on a riser with 2 upward facing keepers and a piece of binding tape on the back to put the excess in. I've had an issue with 2 different methods I've used now that the toggle passes through the loop of excess and ties itself off. I don't mind the excitement or the rear riser landings... I do mind the grass on the jump suit from rear riser stalls if I can avoid them.

So far I've tried setting the breaks, running the excess loop through the back keeper then hooking the excess on the bottom keeper before tucking it in. The other method I've trid was just looping it on the bottom with out routing on the back and I've tied it off both ways so far.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[hookitt 1]

For what it's worth I haven't stowed the excess brake line for most of my jumps. It's not a recommendation but certainly demonstrates keeping it simple.

If I understand your description correctly, I'd suggest keeping the excess line away from the toggle keepers altogether. Binding tape on the back isn't a favorite since it won't hold the line secure. Elastic is a good replacement. Even if you don't replace it with elastic, keep it away from the toggle keeper.

Wind up the excess and stow the the line in the elastic keeper on the back of the riser and keep it there. If I recall, it's best to stow it from the bottom because you pull the toggles downward to release them.

Here is a very crude drawing.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[JohnGraham 0]

Just wondering what thoughts are on this - what about routing the brake line through the bottom togle keeper itself, from below or above?
I also don't stow my line since my risers don't have any dedicated method of stowing excess brake-line - I can't see how this method would cause a problem, but was after some more experienced opinions.

[DBCOOPER 5]

Small packing band,cut in half lenght wise,larks headed around the riser,above the ring,below the link(s).

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[AndyMan 7]

I fold the excess in half, then stow in binding tape keepers. I do not involve the toggle as that seems like a half-hitch waiting to happen.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Hooknswoop 19]

This any help?

http://www.relativeworkshop.com/pdf_files/09110.pdf

Derek

[PhreeZone 20]

Funny enough.. thats how I've been stowing it, whats happening is that the toggle is a fold in half design then push that into the bottom keeper, thats letting a large loop form and the bottom of the toggle goes through it and when I pull down its putting the toggle through that loop and half hitching on the riser.

First time I thought I saw that forming before I grabbed the toggles so I even took the time to try and sort it our under canopy carefully before pulling the toggle and I still managed to do it. That was 2 years ago, yesterday I grabbed the toggles with out looking up and when I pulled I knew something was wrong right away.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[billbooth 10]

Correctly stowing excess brake line is a very big deal. Several jumpers have recently lost their lives because of this problem. When we went from Velcro to non-Velcro toggle keepers, several manufacturers made no provision for excess line stowage. I think this was a very bad idea. I believe everyone has published some sort of stowage instructions by now...or at least I hope so.

[ladyskydiver 0]

Bill...how do you recommend to stow the excess brake line?

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[PhreeZone 20]

Hook's link is to the RWS method for their risers.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[NickDG 23]

In the old days jumpers learned the importance of stowing their excess brake line because the rigs of the day didn't contain the risers well enough to keep this excess line from escaping during freefall. It caused many reserve rides and a more than a few deaths.

Nowadays the riser covers are better and we don't see that too often.

However, in my opinion they still need to be stowed. Take a close look at the attached photo (from this month's PARACHUTIST no less) and tell me that's what you want going on over your head?

Sure, it may work most of the time, but sooner or later . . .

Think of how doing this can complicate an unstable opening. Think of how this could complicate things if your rig opens inadvertently in the door. Think of what could happen if you need to cutaway a violent malfunction and one of those two death loops hooked something? In a sport where you want everything in your favor is this really what you want to do?

How would you feel if riggers left the brake lines like this on your reserve? And why do you think they don't?

The worst part is I see some Instructors doing this and thereby passing on the message its okay to their students.

What happens when Johnny Jumper first straps a camera on? Will he realize all of sudden that leaving that excess line flapping around is not good?

I'll go as far as to say this practice is okay if an experienced jumper wants to save 20 seconds on a pack job and he understands the risk, but it's not alright to pass the practice along to the unsuspecting . . .

NickD BASE 194

[flytex 0]

Very timely thread for me. Two weekends ago I had two incidents of my brakes not releasing. (Velcro-less risers, stowage loops on back.) In one of them I actually ended up with a half hitch knot around the top stowage loop on the back of the riser. In the second incident (two jumps later) I had a tension knot, which I couldn't get released.

I had pretty much stowed my brakes the same way for the last 200 jumps. Generally, making a loop and running it thru the stowage loops in back. Although I also would say I really didn't pay all that close attention to actually how lines were routed, so believe both of these were the result of sloppiness on my part.

Both my landing were with rear risers, with the last one resulting in me sliding in hot & getting a little banged up.

I am now paying very close attention to how I stow the brakes, and I'm trying to just run the single loop of excess straight thru the stowage loops, with no doubling etc.

[darkwing 5]

It is also interesting to note the slider stops(?) moving up the suspension lines. That is some ugly stuff there.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[billbooth 10]

Looks like the guy in the picture should have stowed his excess brake line in the slider stops, and solved two problems at once!

PS: I'm Kidding!

[FrogNog 1]

Quote

... way to stow the excess break line on a riser with 2 upward facing keepers and a piece of binding tape on the back to put the excess in.

This description matches my Infinity risers. What I have taken to doing is s-folding the excess brake loop three times and tucking that into the binding tape. When I put three s-folds into the brake line loop, it gets fat enough that 9 out of 10 openings both brake lines are still held in place. (My Infinity's riser covers never come open before deployment; on a rig where the risers do blow open in freefall, I would probably see a lot more than one loose brake line excess per 10 jumps.)

The order I do things in to make it easiest on myself is:
1. route brake line (top to bottom) from inside to outside and stick the top of the toggle through the line split and into the top keeper.
2. stick the bottom of the toggle into bottom keeper.
3. tug canopy end of brake line.
4. flip riser over and pull brake loop taught up to the excess keeper binding tape.
5. s-fold brake line on top of the tape three times and stick it in; resultant s-folded wad barely sticks out of the tape.

The drawing attached to Hookitt's post is a decent diagram of how I fold the line up (except I never roll-fold any lines or webbing on my rig, I always s-fold).

Elastic holds tighter but I'm getting sufficient performance from the binding tape and the tape is very long-wearing.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I believe everyone has published some sort of stowage instructions by now...or at least I hope so.

I didn't see anything in the Wings manual.

[MWGemini 0]

I use a method very similar to the one linked to above, recommended by RWS. I jump a Mirage and my risers are slightly different, so I had to modify the technique slightly.

If I understand what you are saying correctly, you have so much excess line that it forms a loop which your toggle (or even a finger or hand) could pass through. I had a similar problem. To correct this, I had my rigger sew on two elastic keepers on the back of the risers (similar to what is shown in the RWS article). The key part is making sure that the lower elastic band is low enough on the riser to take up that extra slack. You might only need one additional piece of elastic on each riser.

If this is not a clear description of the solution, or if I am misunderstanding the problem, let me know and I'll try to be more clear next time.

Mike

Edit: grammar

[firstime 0]

Quote

I fold the excess in half, then stow in binding tape keepers. I do not involve the toggle as that seems like a half-hitch waiting to happen.

HMMM.. food for thought!!

• Quote

[NickDG 23]

>>It is also interesting to note the slider stops(?) moving up the suspension lines. That is some ugly stuff there.<<

Gee, I missed that in the photo, that's really bad . . .

The caption said the photo is from Skydive San Diego. (It was called Boarderland when I worked there many years ago and drop zones had real names.)

If this is what's going on there, it's no mystery why they have a Cypres rule. And if that's a student some Instructor needs his ticket pulled . . .

A sad aside to all this is the current issue of PARACHUTIST, where this photo ran, was all about Safety Day.

NickD
BASE 194

[Reginald 0]

Quote

This any help?

http://www.relativeworkshop.com/pdf_files/09110.pdf

I started using this method and have been VERY pleased with it. It is both secure and keeps the excess from becoming entangled on things like my gloves, etc. I just feel good knowing that if I have to grab a toggle in a hurry for whatever reason that I won’t have to worry about where the excess line is, because it is secured.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[pilotdave 0]

Me too. I had been just folding the excess over and stuffing it down the loops on the back of the riser. After having a brake fire and then the brake line somehow get stuck in the full flight position (it became freed after landing on rear risers so no clue what happened), I reread the manual and realized I was doing it wrong. Previously I had the excess come out and hook around my gloved thumb once when unstowing the brakes... no big deal, slipped right off, but it coulda been a bigger annoyance. Absolutely no issues at all since I started doing it right.

Dave

[skip 0]

Quote

I didn't see anything in the Wings manual.

I just received a new wings and also noticed that there is not much in the Owners Manual in fact the picture in the manual has the excess just hanging out to the side and does not even have the same keeper configuration as the toggles that came with my rig.

My bottom toggle keeper is like half way up the toggle with the loops below it. Does anyone have any tips on stowing with this configuration? At the moment I am bringing the excess up through the bottom keeper however this still leaves a whole bunch hanging so I wrap that back around and kind of push it up in the bottom side of the bottom keeper. I will try to get picks this evening if that would help.

neilp

[BlindBrick 0]

Quote

Quote

I believe everyone has published some sort of stowage instructions by now...or at least I hope so.

I didn't see anything in the Wings manual.

Yeah, I saw a Wings at the dz last weekend and there was no provisions for storing the excess. As someone who has had the misfortune of getting their finger trapped by excess brake line, I knew it was a bad deal.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[mr2mk1g 10]

I do as you do but hook the loop of excess over the top horn first.

Ie I hook loop over upper horn before pushing horn into keeper. Then stuff now doubled loop up lower keeper and push lower horn into lower keeper. This leads to no excess flapping round, is very secure, does not hang up and all the excess line is tight against the side of the break/riser.

It works... but I would have liked to see a method of stowing the xs come out of the factory rather than having to invent one.

If it's not clear say so and I'll see if I can post a pic. If anyone thinks I'm going to kill myself please feel free to say so.

[kelpdiver 2]

If I read you correctly, that's what someone suggested to me over the weekend as well. The excess only pokes out a couple inches then.

I'm interested in comment from Sunrise. I had a toggle fire on one jump over the weekend, though I believe it was likely unrelated.