15 Jump Student Gear Purchase

[jasonRose 0]

Ok I really don't know crap but I do know I want my own rig! I figured I better start asking questions before I make some bone head purchase.

I have been under two differen't canopy's a Tri 190 and a Spectre 170. The comparison between the two was Like driving a school Bus and driving a dodge viper. So in my limited student brain the spectre 170 seems like a canopy that I could have fun on for a while. As far as reserve, container etc. I have no clue what would be good for me. Any input that you could give would be greatly appriciated! Here are my stats.

Jumps 15 in 5 weeks, completed aff in 2 weeks
Weight 172lb without rig
Age 30
Sanity The only thing that seems to scare me is bad weather and needles.

Thaks for your help
The Newbie.

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[BIGUN 1,483]

Talk to your instructors

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[freefalle 0]

Jason, I would venture it safe to say nobody on here truly knows your skill level. As far as canopies (main and reserve,) ask your instructor what is best for you, you MAY even want to stay on rental gear for a bit until you, with the assistance of your instructor, downsize to the canopy size which best suits you.

Was the triath 170 student gear? Who suggested you jump that, I would think that your exit weight would be close to 190-195 lbs, Just curious.

I'm not trying to discourage you, or your desire to purchase gear, the opposite is true. Welcome to the sport, make good choices and stay safe. Use the advise of your AFF instructors, it will serve you well.

[jasonRose 0]

Ny instructors have given me a couple options but was advised to check out the forums and reviews for more info.

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[jasonRose 0]

I guess I wrote my description poorly, I have and will consult my instructors prior to any rig purchase with out a doubt. I was hoping for insight as far as mistakes/triumphs made on first rig purchases thus enabling me to make a logical choice on a new rig and learn from others mistakes. Thanks for your response I can see how people would be reluctant to responding to a student but I assure you this post was not to undermine my instructors insight. Thanks again
BLUE SKY'S
Jason
Psalms 55:22

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[BIGUN 1,483]

Thanks for the clarification and my apologies for the short reply. We get those kinds of inquiries a lot on here and it would be irresponsible of us without knowing your skill level to give you much more advice than talking with your instructors.

Having said that; I would encourage you to read Lisa's article... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=46

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I have been under two differen't canopy's a Tri 190 and a Spectre 170. The comparison between the two was Like driving a school Bus and driving a dodge viper.

You probably saw the ongoing Tri/Spectre thread. It shouldn't be that big a difference between the two.
The 170 versus 190 was probably the bigger factor.

If you can rent decent stuff, don't rush to buy. Try out as big a variety as safe and practical.

[skybytch 273]

You may find this article to be helpful too.

[jasonRose 0]

Wow!! That was a well written article! Good job Lisa I am sure you heard that a few times!!! The spectre that I used had a very nice opening and was bad ass to fly although I only jumped it 5 times. Unfortunaley the person who owns that canopy finaly put her own rig together which leaves me with the 190 triatholon school bus again. I think my mind is made up on the spectre 170 for my main but what are the best containers for free flying that can hold a 170 main?

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[FFAddict 0]

Pritty much all new rigs are freefly friendly and if you buy the right size they will fit a 170 main. I should point out i do mean new containers and if your going second hand you should ask your instructors/riger to make sure it ok.
In my opinion as long as you make sure that your new rig will be freefly friendly the decision really comes down to personal preference with looks and comfort which you can only get buy testing gear.

I would seriously advise you to try as many differnt canopies and containers befor you buy anything.
Deciding on the spectre when it is only the second caonpy you have jumped is probably not a great move. The biggest differnce between the two you have tried will be the size differnce not the model, if you had both in a 170 you may not still chose the spectre.

I know exactly what it is like being new and wanting gear, i have only been jumping a few months and am waiting for my first rig to arrive at the moment.
Living in the UK i found it very hard finding rigs to demo and i ordered after jumping only four differnt rigs (some demo, some rental). Although i am happy with my choice and dont think i could have done much more to guide my decision, i am still worried that i may have made the wrong decision and would advise you to do everything you can to make sure you have found the right kit for you.

[jasonRose 0]

Unfortunatley I have a limited resource for rentals, I only have three options to choose from. 190 triatholon and another 190 triathalon and a 230 something. I guess I will have to wait until I get my A license so I can start exploring DZ's with more demo gear. What is the difference between semi elipticle, and elipticle in regards to canopy? Thanks for all the helpful input.
Blue SKY'S
Jason

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[FFAddict 0]

I would definately get qualified and travel around to DZ's with shops as they will have more demo gear.

I dont know about your DZ but if they have a shop or sell directly they may be able to arrange more demo gear for you.

As for the eliptical/ semi eliptical you need the advise of somebody who has far more knowledge than i do, sorry!

[lummy 4]

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I think my mind is made up on the spectre 170 for my main but what are the best containers for free flying that can hold a 170 main

I was looking at your profile and you have listed the Spectre 170 as your main along with a wing loading of 1.0. In your first post, you mentioned your weight WITHOUT rig is 172lbs. MAybe I've missed something or misread it but I want to make sure you are not confused about this. To calculate wingloading, you take your weight PLUS your gear weight and divide by the canopy size. Typically, we assume 25lbs for gear weight.
In your case, 172+25/170 gives you a wingloading of 1.16

If we took PD's recommendations by the book
spectre that wingloading would fall into the ADVANCED pilot category. Based on your jump #'s a Spectre 190 might be a better choice

Is that too much for you? I honestly don't know since I don't you or your skills. The Spectre is a very forgiving canopy, but the extra 20 sq ft might save your life or avoid broken bones if you get yourself into a bad situation.

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[jasonRose 0]

HMMMMM... Does the Spectre 190 fly like the triathalon 190? I really do not like the school bus feel in the 190 triatholon and it seems like when I fly the spectre 170 I can put it down just about any place I want give or take a couple car lengths. I have difficulty cutting the wind in the Tri 190 which is probably due to my lack of experince. I have had no problems cutting wind on the Spectre 170 and the openings have been very docile and landings have been great thus far. Thanks for everyones concerns and not to worry I will be stuck in the Triathalon 190 until I get my own rig.

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[lummy 4]

I couldn't tell you, I only have a handful of jumps on a Triathlon. If I had to guess, I would assume the a Spectre 190 would fly more like the Spectre 170 than a Triathlon 190.

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[justinb138 0]

Here is a bit of useful information

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1625462#1625462

[AndyMan 7]

Spetre's and Triathlons are exceeding similar canopies.

If you loved one but hated the other, that difference was most likely caused by other factors, such as wind conditions, canopy age, lineset condition, etc.

Any 170 square foot canopy is very aggresive given your weight. Please be aware that jumping any 170 right now is not "the safe choice". Remember in the future, that if you ever catch yourself saying "I'm a safe skydiver", that sentence is in direct contradiction with your choice in canopies.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[jasonRose 0]

Point taken! 190 for a first rig. Now can that be twiked a little with a semi elipticle or elipticle type canopy? After reading Lisa's article it really got me thinking about the oh shit that happens 5% of the time. I dont want to end up looking like this guy, . Thanks for the input.
BLUE SKY'S
Jason

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

Now can that be twiked a little with a semi elipticle or elipticle type canopy

Semi-eliptical Saber 2's, Safires, and Pilots make great first canopies - when sized appropriately.

Fully Eliptical canopies do not.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Amazon 7]

When you buy your first rig( Infinity ) Just tell them you will be putting a 190 in it but will be downsizing to a 170 at some point.

My Infinity 1.0 was built for a 230 and sized a bit larger for the Triathalon 260 I had. The rig had everything in it from a huge 300 Sq Foot F-111 canopy from the 1980's to a BASE 305 canopy..
On the smaller side it also had a Sabre2 190 a Lotus 190 and a Samurai 190 in it. With the 190 in it I put in a small closing loop and wiht the 300 a larger one to allow for the extra material. In all cases I used the D BAG that came with the rig.

Just a bit of food for thought.

[peregrinerose 0]

I had my first rig and jumpsuit ordered by jump 10, was jumping my own gear by jump 15 or so (needed to taper my way down from a 210 to a 170. I'm at a .97ish wing load even with the 170). I talked to the master rigger at the DZ, I trust him. He helped my husband with gear the year before and Chad was happy with it.

No way in hell would I have bought anything on my own (without basically being told what to get) this early. But it is great having my own gear and jumping the same canopy every time, I learn more that way.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[plowdirt 0]

hey you get me a beer. Now it may be you owe beer.

Don't rush, there is alot of that in the beginning. Remember you will spend alot of money on those rigs, and I say those cause you will down size alot in the first couple years. stay at a 1to1 for a while learn it live it love it, and if you do get gear soon get something maxed for the 1 to 1, so you'll be able to put something a little smaller in it later.

you will be beating up you gear for a bit, hold off on the new stuff.

I see a mirage in your future $$$$ and thats all I'm willing to release.

Remember learn it live it love it the size of canopy you choose to fly will make you, or break you. literally. have fun and don't forget to smileed

[i1tojump 0]

It was said before but, listen to your instructors that watch you jump all the time. Guidelines are just that, guidelines. When I first started jumping I was 180 without gear and in student status I started out with student gear with a 230 main as I progressed through training my instructors kept down sizing me until I was jumping a 190 when i completed AFF level 7. Now I did spend a lot of time on the ground asking questions, watching and paying attention to any adive the instructor could give. I completed all my AFF levels on the first attempt and (Knock on wood) to this date only had 2 landing where I have not stood them up. By jump 30 I wanted to buy my own gear and after talking to the instructors that knew how I was under canopy and jumping one of thiers a few times I was signed off to purchase and jump a Sabre 150. I jumped that for about a hundred jumps. I learned that canopy and practiced as many scenarios as I could that may possibly come up and knowing how your canopy will react can and will eventually save your life. I now have slightly over 200 ram air jumps now and my instuctors cleared me to purchase and jump my current set up which my main is a Stiletto 150. I know that if I asked on here or went with the guidelines that no one in thier right mind would recommend me jumping this without knowing my abilities. I even have to have a letter from my home DZ instructors saying that I am qualified to jump the Stiletto when I travel to new DZs. (Found that out the hard way when I showed up to a new DZ and they wouldn't let me jump my rig because my #'s were too low) So in ending, everyone is different and only those who are experienced and watch you jump can help you make a proper choice that you will enjoy, learn on and be safe on. So, good luck and ask your questions from those who know you and your abilities and hopefully at the end of the day everyone goes home safe and sound.

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