Wonder what kind of Waiver he signed?

[Southern_Man 0]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100522/ap_on_re_as/as_china_everest_boy

edited to make clicky.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[quade 4]

I wonder if his parents ever heard of Jessica Dubroff.

Records for "youngest" whatever are simply stupid.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Greene 0]

"simply stupid" ?

Quit being so negative on most of your post

You need to learn to lighting up.

Lee West

PS, do not bother to respond because it always reflects your negativity.

You think you are the know all, see all wizard".

[quade 4]

Lee, you're entitled to your opinion. It's a pity you don't recognize others are entitled to theirs.

BTW, as we've asked you many times in the past, please make an account for yourself.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Greene 0]

Typical response
Jim and I are ONE entity!!!!

If we wanted another account we would add one, however we do not want any more spam.

We use one account for all.

Bottom line, we do not want another account, if we did we would have registered one many years ago

JIM and LEE WEST
SKYDIVE GREENE COUNTY
XENIA, OHIO

SINCE - 1961 !!!!

[quade 4]

Regardless, it would be a pity if one person's name was tarnished due to the actions of another.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jtval 0]

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I wonder if his parents ever heard of Jessica Dubroff.

Records for "youngest" whatever are simply stupid.

Quote

Lee, you're entitled to your opinion. It's a pity you don't recognize others are entitled to theirs.

BTW, as we've asked you many times in the past, please make an account for yourself.

Do you think the parents are entitled to their opinion? Right or your in your opinion doesnt make it a universal answer.
The parents may feel they are giving their kid an opportunity of a lifetime...OR they may simply be uneducated and taking risks with his life.

Either way, you are guilty of speaking you mind as it Lee.
Whats the big deal if she thinks your negative.

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[jtval 0]

Typo:
Do you think the parents are entitled to their opinion? Right or wrong in your opinion doesnt make it a universal answer.
The parents may feel they are giving their kid an opportunity of a lifetime...OR they may simply be uneducated and taking risks with his life.

Either way, you are guilty of speaking your mind as is Lee.
What's the big deal if she thinks you're negative?

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[quade 4]

Quote

Either way, you are guilty of speaking you mind as it Lee.
Whats the big deal if she thinks your negative.

Are you confused by what constitutes a personal attack on this web site?

I cut people a LOT of slack when it comes to attacking me. If she had said that to virtually ANY other user, she would have been banned. Additionally, because she uses the same account her husband does, he too would have been banned.

I, in no way, am saying that she's not entitled to her opinion, in fact, I stated as much, but she's well over the line on her approach.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jtval 0]

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Either way, you are guilty of speaking you mind as it Lee.
Whats the big deal if she thinks your negative.

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Are you confused by what constitutes a personal attack on this web site?

Are you having a bad day?
Personal attack? You've gotten to be kidding.
She said you need to lighten up because she feels you're negative.

Do you REALLY feel thats an attack against you?
Maybe you do need to lighten up.

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• Quote

[quade 4]

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Maybe you do need to lighten up.

Maybe. Then again, maybe people should attack the subject rather than the person.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[wildcard451 0]

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Quote

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Either way, you are guilty of speaking you mind as it Lee.
Whats the big deal if she thinks your negative.

Quote

Are you confused by what constitutes a personal attack on this web site?

Are you having a bad day?
Personal attack? You've gotten to be kidding.
She said you need to lighten up because she feels you're negative.

Do you REALLY feel thats an attack against you?
Maybe you do need to lighten up.

If that is what counts as an attack these days then some people around here are wound way to damned tight.

• Quote

[quade 4]

Again, the entire point being, discuss the idea, not attack the users of this site. Every point in Lee's post was directed at me rather than the topic.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jtval 0]

So if the parents sign up to this site you would call your post a personal attack?

I would call it your opinion of their parenting which you are entitled to.

But if "negative" is a personal attack then so is "simply stupid."
The only diff is that the parents aren't here to read it.

This is bonfire not Speakers corner.

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[quade 4]

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This is bonfire not Speakers corner.

Correct. The standard for civility toward one another should be higher here. Again, discuss the topic.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jtval 0]

Ok.

I think it's bad ass that this kids saw a map on his school wall and wanted to climb those mountains.

I also think its a learning experience that can not be taught in school.

I think it is awesome that his parents are open-minded enough to entertain the idea and even better, have the ability to make this happen for him.

I do agree with you sentiment, though. (I think)

Hopefully, they educated themselves on each endeavor and tried to mitigate as much risk as possible instead of blindly buying a plane ticket and hiring any old sherpa to help him out.

I would assume that they tried to hire the best when Apa, the sherpa has made his 20th trek on this trip.

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[quade 4]

Fair enough. But what about the next kid with rich parents?

Do you know who Jessica Dubroff was?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jtval 0]

I goggled her. I agree that seven is a bit young to fly.

Unfortunate event.

However, you can't save them from themselves.
But you shouldn't add more risk than they can find on their own.
Flying a plane is something that doesn't come naturally.

Climbing is something that can be done in most parts of the country.
Obviously, climbing a 29,000ft'er isn't natural but, to me, its acceptable if you as the parent feel you have educated yourself and mitagated the risks.

Summer camp extreme?

Possibly. I am not a parent. My opinion might vary if I was.
The difference here is that the sherpa was very experienced. I only read a quick synapsis of Jessica's trek but I believe she was solo flight?

That would be like putting the other kid on a mt, pointing to the top and saying, good luck kiddo!

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[jtval 0]

Just looked on Wiki.
Looks like she was with an instructor and her dad, who all died.

Looks like the IP made some bad decisions and allowed them to be in a terrible situation.


I can see how many people could feel the same way about this (Mt climb) event but I just don't see it the same way.
I know there are LOTS of risks and anything can pop up and kill you. I know that there is a high mortality rate but for some reason I just don't see it the same as letting a 7 year old fly a plane.

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[quade 4]

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I know that there is a high mortality rate but for some reason I just don't see it the same as letting a 7 year old fly a plane.

Well, the thing there is that with the CFI on-board, you'd think the kid flying the airplane would actually be a non-issue. At any point from engine start to stop all the CFI would have to do is say, "my airplane", just like countless CFIs do every single day and things are theoretically back under complete control of an experienced airman.

You don't get to do that once you've decided to summit Everest and scores of bodies have been left on the way to prove it. The sherpa is only partly in control; nobody is in control of the weather.

The crazy thing about the Dubroff instance is good ol' pop had scheduled some interviews in the next town and there was pressure on the CFI to make the flight happen. Big mistake. There was no pressing need to continue that day other than the "fame" of pushing the kid into the spot light.

Now, while this kid that summited Everest may have done everything right and gotten away with it, what about the 11-year-old rich kid that wants to do it next or the 9-year-old that intends on breaking that record?

Where do you draw the line on this non-sense?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jtval 0]

Well, Its not for me to draw the line.
I'm no parent.

I know what you mean, though. You're asking me where I would start to think its crazy/risky/stupid.

I guess its a case by case thing.
My thought process here is that the sherpa can get weather reports and canx the whole trip if it looks risky.

But as proven in the Dubroff incident even instructors can be suckers for fame.
I'm more of a slow-ya-roll safety guy.

I plan on being around for a long time.
I dont need to swoop on my 13th jump. I don't need to climb the mountain on my first attempt.

The fact that I made the right decision at the time is enough for me. Even if I never get a 2nd chance to fly to china to try again I'll know that at least I am alive to (want to)try again.


I know not everyone is like that but,well, those people die for a reason.
I don't think a child should be pressured into anything like this but I don't think they should be held back either...to a certain degree. There are pioneers in every walk of life. Sometimes they start younger than others. It doesnt mean that every 9 year old is able or should be allowed to try it but sometimes there's one special kid who can handle it.

If this kids first attempt was a 29,000ft'er it would be nuts there's no way he could do it without working up to it.
However, he's already had some training since he's done a few already...which leads to your point.


He was that kid who was 9 or 11. I dont know when he started but he did start when he was younger than 13.
I just don't have the answer you're looking for but I don't see it as risky if you plan it well.

NOTE: I have never done a 29,000ft'er. I AM completely naive about this. But I still think its something that can be a little safer than flying. It's a slower thought process. I can't imagine the kid was free climbing 100ft walls.


If the dubroff dad wasn't pressured into fame maybe the little girl would still be alive. With a COMPETENT CFi on board I don't know if I would be opposed to the flight either.
but they set her up to fail. the flight plan was way to tight and had little to no room for weather.
In the end it was the CFI who killed the crew and pax of that plane due to the pressure from the dad to get to the next stop for the media attention.


Weighing all that against my (imaginary) childs life my sway me to disallow my kid to go on this trip but I can't speak from that angle intelligently.

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[riddler 0]

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I wonder if his parents ever heard of Jessica Dubroff.

That is the very first thing I thought of, too. Empower your kids, but keep them safe; know where to draw the line between the two.

As I am not an expert on climbing really large mountains (I only climb 14ers, here in CO), and I do not know the skill of this young man, I will not comment on the safety aspect of his climbing Everest.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[turtlespeed 226]

Quote

Where do you draw the line on this non-sense?

That line crosses JUST after the line is where you aren't allowed to keep score in a ball game becuse it causes competition.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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I know that there is a high mortality rate but for some reason I just don't see it the same as letting a 7 year old fly a plane.

Well, the thing there is that with the CFI on-board, you'd think the kid flying the airplane would actually be a non-issue. At any point from engine start to stop all the CFI would have to do is say, "my airplane", just like countless CFIs do every single day and things are theoretically back under complete control of an experienced airman.

You don't get to do that once you've decided to summit Everest and scores of bodies have been left on the way to prove it. The sherpa is only partly in control; nobody is in control of the weather.

The crazy thing about the Dubroff instance is good ol' pop had scheduled some interviews in the next town and there was pressure on the CFI to make the flight happen. Big mistake. There was no pressing need to continue that day other than the "fame" of pushing the kid into the spot light.

Now, while this kid that summited Everest may have done everything right and gotten away with it, what about the 11-year-old rich kid that wants to do it next or the 9-year-old that intends on breaking that record?

Where do you draw the line on this non-sense?

Sherpas probably will not change a clients diaper. That pretty much determines the minimum age of a client.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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Either way, you are guilty of speaking you mind as it Lee.
Whats the big deal if she thinks your negative.

Are you confused by what constitutes a personal attack on this web site?

I cut people a LOT of slack when it comes to attacking me. If she had said that to virtually ANY other user, she would have been banned. Additionally, because she uses the same account her husband does, he too would have been banned.

I, in no way, am saying that she's not entitled to her opinion, in fact, I stated as much, but she's well over the line on her approach.

What an embarrassing exchange. I've been to a point where a needed a break from this place. Maybe you've found that point.