Choose your poison...

[kallend 2,151]

... wisely.

www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnMitchell 16]

Hmmmm- Moderation.

[Remster 30]

Butane? WTF? I'm such a fuddy duddy.... lol

Remster

[skyrider 0]

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Butane? WTF? I'm such a fuddy duddy.... lol

You've never heard of "Getting Lit"?

[pinkfairy 0]

Damn, and I was going for the theory of progressing to harder drugs from soft ones this weekend:

Yesterday: Alcohol
Today: nicotine
Tomorrow: Caffeine(?)

I should have started with mushrooms, obviously. Just the season for it too.



But seriously, isn't the reason alcohol is rated so dangerous that so many people use it? Lots more drivers on alcohol than other drugs, for instance?

Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet.

I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you?

[amstalder 0]

Sooo. I was unaware there is a difference between cocaine and crack cocaine. Time to google I guess.

[ryoder 1,590]

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Butane? WTF? I'm such a fuddy duddy.... lol

Damn!
There are several on there I've missed.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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Sooo. I was unaware there is a difference between cocaine and crack cocaine. Time to google I guess.

I think it's socio-economic more than anything else.

Cocaine- your lawyer gets you rehab.

Crack- your public defender gets you 3-5 years on a plea bargain.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Sooo. I was unaware there is a difference between cocaine and crack cocaine. Time to google I guess.

I think it's socio-economic more than anything else.

Cocaine- your lawyer gets you rehab.

Crack- your public defender gets you 3-5 years on a plea bargain.

You're correct; but 1 point of clarification - not really to you, but for the sake of the audience:
Public defenders are lawyers. Some of the best, in fact.

[champu 1]

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But seriously, isn't the reason alcohol is rated so dangerous that so many people use it? Lots more drivers on alcohol than other drugs, for instance?

Well, at least part of the problem is that because alcohol is legal it is more frequently consumed in locations other than one's own residence. Often times people, through poor planning, put a drive between their drinking and a place to crash (morbid pun intended.)

Other drugs currently being illegal means consumption has to be somewhat more low-key. If you're free to go anywhere you want and consume some of those other drugs then people will. Afterwords, they'll need to get home somehow. If the drug impairs motor skills and alcohol is any lesson, they'll get home via a drive that's dangerous to themselves and others.

I'm not making an argument regarding legalization or prohibition of anything, just giving my thoughts on the results of the study.

[DARK 0]

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Sooo. I was unaware there is a difference between cocaine and crack cocaine. Time to google I guess.

I think it's socio-economic more than anything else.

Cocaine- your lawyer gets you rehab.

Crack- your public defender gets you 3-5 years on a plea bargain.

as far as i know there is a small chemical difference aswell between coke and crack

also that study is about two years old and it was weighted to take into account more or less users

the guy who commisioed was subsequently fired when he recommended the declassification of lsd as a result of the findings of this very study i believe

there is a much longer article explaining each drug in detail if anyone cares

[amstalder 0]

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Quote

Quote

Sooo. I was unaware there is a difference between cocaine and crack cocaine. Time to google I guess.

I think it's socio-economic more than anything else.

Cocaine- your lawyer gets you rehab.

Crack- your public defender gets you 3-5 years on a plea bargain.

as far as i know there is a small chemical difference aswell between coke and crack

also that study is about two years old and it was weighted to take into account more or less users

the guy who commisioed was subsequently fired when he recommended the declassification of lsd as a result of the findings of this very study i believe

there is a much longer article explaining each drug in detail if anyone cares

Cool. Thanks! Might have to find that sometime

[JohnMitchell 16]

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Public defenders are lawyers. Some of the best, in fact.

Overworked, underpaid, I hear stories of public defenders plea bargaining too often instead of recommending to their client to go to trial. Your thoughts, good sir?

[Andy9o8 2]

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Public defenders are lawyers. Some of the best, in fact.

Overworked, underpaid, I hear stories of public defenders plea bargaining too often instead of recommending to their client to go to trial. Your thoughts, good sir?

The reality is that criminal court judges usually sentence defendants more harshly if they opt for trial (esp. a 3-day jury trial rather than a 3-hour judge-only trial) and are convicted, than if they negotiate a plea and save the system a lot of time, money and energy.

Having worked very closely with all sides of that system, I can tell you that PDs don't recommend plea bargains to their clients based on workload, they recommend them based on the client's chances of winning or losing at trial, and the likely sentence if they plea bargain versus the likely sentence if they take their chances at trial and lose. I can also tell you that it's not uncommon for a defendant to want to plea bargain, but if the DA isn't offering a decent deal, or if they're facing a parole violation (upon conviction) that makes a plea bargain useless, defense counsel (including PDs) will often have to persuade their clients to take the case to trial.

PDs in a professional PD's office (not just the old-style "court-appointed" private counsel) are almost always the most capable defense attorneys in the courtroom. The image of a PD being incompetent and/or so overworked that he just pleads his client out to save work is little more than a whuffos' myth.

The vast majority of the really top private criminal defense attorneys got their initial training as PDs or DAs; with the best of the best of those being, or having been, PDs.

Incidentally, DAs tend to be overworked and underpaid pretty much equivalent to PDs. Consider the effect of that, too.

[JohnMitchell 16]

Thanks for the expert explanation. I learned something new today.

[skyrider 0]

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Public defenders are lawyers. Some of the best, in fact.

Overworked, underpaid, I hear stories of public defenders plea bargaining too often instead of recommending to their client to go to trial. Your thoughts, good sir?

only time I used one, he talked me into pleaing out, and I did 36 days ....for stealing 3 gallons of gas back in 74!

[jrmrangers 0]

crack is actually cocaine that has been cooked down to a much more potent product.

Wait , I pull what first?

[skyrider 0]

Actually a "weaken" form of cocain, giving more profit to the cook...

Here is the step by step process outlined by the “instructor” in the images:

Materials Required: Cocaine powder, teaspoon, measuring cup, pan, baking soda.

Pour about an ounce of cocaine in the measuring cup.

Add about a teaspoon of baking soda.

Fill with about 3/4 cup of water.

Pour the mixture into the pan.

The mixture will start to bubble. Get a knife and flatten the bubbles.


Continue to flatten the mixture while cooking it.


Continue to cook it until it is solid white.

Place the solid form of cocaine on a towel or napkin to drain.

Place rocks in freezer for 15-20 minutes.

Congratulations you have successfully made crack cocaine.

[ryoder 1,590]

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only time I used one, he talked me into pleading out, and I did 36 days ....for stealing 3 gallons of gas back in 74!

3 gallons of gasoline in 1974, was probably worth about $1!
And you got 36 days???

Oh wait; That was during the Arab Oil Embargo; More like $3.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[skyrider 0]

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only time I used one, he talked me into pleading out, and I did 36 days ....for stealing 3 gallons of gas back in 74!

3 gallons of gasoline in 1974, was probably worth about $1!
And you got 36 days???

Oh wait; That was during the Arab Oil Embargo; More like $3.

30 days, I had sat in jail for 36 days by the time I got to court, (was in line for a public defender) So really no slam to the lawyer, just to the system....

I needed that slap in the face...I deserved every second of my time!

[freethefly 6]

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Public defenders are lawyers. Some of the best, in fact.

Overworked, underpaid, I hear stories of public defenders plea bargaining too often instead of recommending to their client to go to trial. Your thoughts, good sir?

only time I used one, he talked me into pleaing out, and I did 36 days ....for stealing 3 gallons of gas back in 74!

My PD in San Diego, 1984, plead bargained me into an unwanted vacation at Descanso in Alpine, Ca. on a concealed weapons charge. Buck knife, in the case, on my belt. My jacket covered it as I sat on the bar stool at a place called Ed's Beer on University Ave. Police came in for some reason and did a pat down on a few of us. My buddy had a .38 in his jacket and got a misdemeanor. I got a felony charge for the knife and the PD screwed me over.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Andy9o8 2]

You may very well have had one bad experience with "a PD" in 1984. (I'm not even going to begin addressing all the possible variables that could have affected your individual case, none of which are in your post.) Same for Skyrider that time in 1974. Individual anecdotes do happen. [Insert skydiving analogy here.] I've been in the system professionally in multiple jurisdictions for 30 years; and based on my thousands of first-hand anecdotes, I stand by my posts.

ETA: Oh, by the way: the San Diego Public Defender's office was established in 1988, four years after your experience. That tells me that in all likelihood, you did not have a professional public defender, you had a "court appointed" private attorney. A huge world of difference, as I have already explained in this and other threads.

[freethefly 6]

Quote

You may very well have had one bad experience with "a PD" in 1984. (I'm not even going to begin addressing all the possible variables that could have affected your individual case, none of which are in your post.) Same for Skyrider that time in 1974. Individual anecdotes do happen. [Insert skydiving analogy here.] I've been in the system professionally in multiple jurisdictions for 30 years; and based on my thousands of first-hand anecdotes, I stand by my posts.

ETA: Oh, by the way: the San Diego Public Defender's office was established in 1988, four years after your experience. That tells me that in all likelihood, you did not have a professional public defender, you had a "court appointed" private attorney. A huge world of difference, as I have already explained in this and other threads.

I think you are right that he was a court appointed attorney. As I recall, people were very much just ran through the process as fast as possible at the court on Broadway. I was pretty much told what my options were, and they were not promising. No money for a private lawyer, I took what they gave me, did my time, got on my scooter and left Ca.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[skyrider 0]

Quote

Quote

You may very well have had one bad experience with "a PD" in 1984. (I'm not even going to begin addressing all the possible variables that could have affected your individual case, none of which are in your post.) Same for Skyrider that time in 1974. Individual anecdotes do happen. [Insert skydiving analogy here.] I've been in the system professionally in multiple jurisdictions for 30 years; and based on my thousands of first-hand anecdotes, I stand by my posts.

ETA: Oh, by the way: the San Diego Public Defender's office was established in 1988, four years after your experience. That tells me that in all likelihood, you did not have a professional public defender, you had a "court appointed" private attorney. A huge world of difference, as I have already explained in this and other threads.

I think you are right that he was a court appointed attorney. As I recall, people were very much just ran through the process as fast as possible at the court on Broadway. I was pretty much told what my options were, and they were not promising. No money for a private lawyer, I took what they gave me, did my time, got on my scooter and left Ca.

I feel your pain, they hunt bikers in San Diego , I was working at national City Cycle in 85 , I wonder if we have met...(My home bar was Dumonts)

[freethefly 6]

Quote

Quote

Quote

You may very well have had one bad experience with "a PD" in 1984. (I'm not even going to begin addressing all the possible variables that could have affected your individual case, none of which are in your post.) Same for Skyrider that time in 1974. Individual anecdotes do happen. [Insert skydiving analogy here.] I've been in the system professionally in multiple jurisdictions for 30 years; and based on my thousands of first-hand anecdotes, I stand by my posts.

ETA: Oh, by the way: the San Diego Public Defender's office was established in 1988, four years after your experience. That tells me that in all likelihood, you did not have a professional public defender, you had a "court appointed" private attorney. A huge world of difference, as I have already explained in this and other threads.

I think you are right that he was a court appointed attorney. As I recall, people were very much just ran through the process as fast as possible at the court on Broadway. I was pretty much told what my options were, and they were not promising. No money for a private lawyer, I took what they gave me, did my time, got on my scooter and left Ca.

I feel your pain, they hunt bikers in San Diego , I was working at national City Cycle in 85 , I wonder if we have met...(My home bar was Dumonts)

I do remember Dumonts on El Cajon Blvd. We partied there from time to time. I normally went to the El Cajon Lounge or Ed's Beer on University or to the Rathskeller in Imperial Beach.
A number of the parts for the Norton build came from National City Cycles (or some bike shop in Nasty City on the main drag. I think it was called National City Cycles.) Pics are the Norton in 83 and 09.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young