Tonto 1 #1 March 23, 2005 We had an incident here last year where the reserve flap of a container had been modified with velcro to make the rig more "freefly friendly." What work can be done on a rig by a rigger or Master rigger that does not void the TSO? What are they allowed, or not allowed to modify? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #2 March 23, 2005 To me it sounds like an alteration to an approved component. Master riggers can do alterations, WITH authorization from the manufacturer or a field approval from the FAA. Not to many people seem to remember the need for approval. And while everyone may agree that it has no inpact on the function, the rigger still needs the approval and if a FAA field approval they can require testing. Field approvals seem to be rare. Probably the most famous one is Ray Ferral's field approval to add his RSL version to virtually any rig, even over the objections of the manufacturers. Long going dispute. Hmmmmm, ADDING velcro makes it free fly friendly? Without seeing it sounds like some wrong thinking to me. Chair, PIA Rigging CommitteeI'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #3 March 23, 2005 What form does "With Authorisation" take? A phone call with "Sure dude, go ahead." ? Or is it more formal than that? What do I have to go on as an AFF instructor when I'm asked to do AFF with a student who's rig has been modified? The rig in question had velcro added to the tuck flap of the Main pin cover to prevent it blowing up in a sit. This contributed to a pilot chute in tow malfunction. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #4 March 23, 2005 FYI At Skydive Dallas they avoided that issue by not allowing the Student or their Student gear to be used for Freefly. Yes it can be difficult to monitor, but not really because the student is usually chatting up his last jump and some one usually hears it. I know this is off your approval topic but I thought this might throw an idea to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #5 March 23, 2005 PM soonI'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #6 March 23, 2005 QuoteWhat form does "With Authorisation" take? A phone call with "Sure dude, go ahead." ? Or is it more formal than that? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes. You need WRITTEN authorization from the FAA to modify a container away from a factory-approved configuration. That written permission usually includes drawings, QC documents, inspection procedures, critical dimensions, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #7 March 23, 2005 My rigger has insisted that the outer reserve flap is not part of the TSO'd system, and can be modified at will. Thoughts? _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #8 March 23, 2005 The harness and reserve container are all part of the reserve system which is the TSO'd system. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #9 March 23, 2005 QuoteMy rigger has insisted that the outer reserve flap is not part of the TSO'd system, and can be modified at will. Thoughts? _Am Your rigger is wrong. On a single harness dual canopy system even the main container is part or the TSO'd system. To modify it you must be prepared to show that the modification does not affect the function of the reserve container and it deployment of the reserve canopy. Some TSO tests requires testing with the main container packed and others with the main container empty. What is not TSO'd is from the main attachment point up. Tonto, The TSO on the rig you described has been voided if the person doing the modification is not the manufacture or has not received authorization as described by Terry. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #10 March 23, 2005 Thanks for the feedback. I guess that gear will be staying on the shelf until this is resolved. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites councilman24 37 #11 March 23, 2005 There are many ways a pin protector flap can be altered that will affect the function. Note responses above. Find a new rigger? Hmmmm, I'm full of opinions today.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
AndyMan 7 #7 March 23, 2005 My rigger has insisted that the outer reserve flap is not part of the TSO'd system, and can be modified at will. Thoughts? _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #8 March 23, 2005 The harness and reserve container are all part of the reserve system which is the TSO'd system. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #9 March 23, 2005 QuoteMy rigger has insisted that the outer reserve flap is not part of the TSO'd system, and can be modified at will. Thoughts? _Am Your rigger is wrong. On a single harness dual canopy system even the main container is part or the TSO'd system. To modify it you must be prepared to show that the modification does not affect the function of the reserve container and it deployment of the reserve canopy. Some TSO tests requires testing with the main container packed and others with the main container empty. What is not TSO'd is from the main attachment point up. Tonto, The TSO on the rig you described has been voided if the person doing the modification is not the manufacture or has not received authorization as described by Terry. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #10 March 23, 2005 Thanks for the feedback. I guess that gear will be staying on the shelf until this is resolved. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #11 March 23, 2005 There are many ways a pin protector flap can be altered that will affect the function. Note responses above. Find a new rigger? Hmmmm, I'm full of opinions today.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites