Any HVAC Techs?

[NovaTTT 2]

Our Carrier Weathermaker 9200 furnace stopped making heat.

I installed a new ignitor and now the LED is signaling 13 - change filter and/or clear inlet vents.

The filter is new and all the inlet vents are clear but the furnace won't ignite.

Power off - wait - power on and the LED signals 33 for about 1 minute (same remedy as above) before changing to signal 13.

Any recommendations or advice?

Thanks!!

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[jimmytavino 16]

does it use a PVC inlet pipe, for air intake and a PVC exhaust Line??
That outlet vent can collect water... if it lays horizontally for any length as it runs to the outside of the house..i suppose that the inlet can , as well...
check to see if that line is sagging at all.
The water condenses from the vapor that is in the output air...
lays in the pipe, and sort of "airlocks the exhaust line".. If the unit does not sense clear flow for Carbon Monoxide exhaust.. it could be designed NOT to fire...
safety feature...You may have to separate the line at an elbow or coupling, and literally drain the H2O , out of it. The couplings, may or may not be glued....
saw it occur at my daughters home..
and I fixed it...

if the system exhausts, through galvanized vent pipe. check that as well to be sure it's clear..
Nowadays the systems are pretty high tech and have delicate sensors ...
good luck
jt

[DeNReN 0]

I am not a HVAC tech nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night

you must already have the manual http://www.xpedio.carrier.com/idc/groups/public/documents/techlit/om58-67.pdf

I looked at a friends older pellet stove the other day, the auger would not work....upon inspection I found a cracked vacuum line to a vacuum sensor...jumped the sensor switch and the auger worked....looked like the stove used a vacuum sensor to determine if the exhaust pipe was clear...

Prob not much help to you...but looking for the simple things sometimes helps....do you see and sensors connected to the intake or out? maybe jump the limit switch and see what happens?


Or call in someone who knows what to look for

[kawisixer01 0]

My off the cuff guess would be that you have some type of Differential pressure sensor. Basically a diaphram sensor that is "comparing" air pressres from two spots. (inside and outside the air intake) to see if the filter is plugged. If the delta p becomes too large than the sensor indicates a plugged filter. Could be a bad sensor, bad board, or just something stupid like one of the sensor tubes plugged. This is all without knowing much about your model and not paging through the manual. Plus i'm not a HVAC tech per-se, but I am an industrial automation and controls guy that has worked on large burner control systems and wrenched on a fair share of things and pretty much always fix everything I own myself. Did you run it without a filter element in to see if it runs?

[NovaTTT 2]

Thanks for the input, thoughts and recommendations.

The furnace is vented with PVC pipes but sits well away from exterior walls so I don't suspect freezing, but I'm going to check for that this morning.

Codes 13 and 33 are called "Limit Switch Lockout" which should be reset when the unit is powered down/up.

Perhaps a vacuum tube or the diaphram has failed. It's possible the board has failed and if I can't resolve it this morning I'll have to get a new one and see what happens. There isn't an LED code for 'faulty board' but as it is signalling something, so one suspects it's OK.

Many thanks for your input. Please post again if something occurs to you or if you've not posted yet but have seen this before.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[kawisixer01 0]

Did you reset the limit switch by hand? I see that the limit switch is a manual reset switch, once the switch has been "sprung" you have to manually put it back to it's normal position. Simply resetting the power only clears the fault but does not reset the switch. The switch should have 24v dc running through it (intrinsically safe, you can touch it without getting shocked, but may get a burn if the pos and neg wires touched your finger at once or touched close to your fingers). My guess would be that it looks for the switch to be passing power when it's ok. If tripped than it goes open and quits passing power, they do this so if the sensor is unplugged or wires are broken it will not run. So going with this you should be able to jumper wire around the switch and make it run, either at the switch or at the plug where it plugs into the board. You can do this with a piece of wire, even a paper clip unbent and pushed down into the plug (WITHOUT DAMAGING IT by forcing things too hard!!)
This is assuming you have the 58mvp, it's item 20 on the diagram. (looks like right on the fan housing)

[DeNReN 0]

any luck?

[petejones45 0]

Quote

Our Carrier Weathermaker 9200 furnace stopped making heat.

I installed a new ignitor and now the LED is signaling 13 - change filter and/or clear inlet vents.

The filter is new and all the inlet vents are clear but the furnace won't ignite.

Power off - wait - power on and the LED signals 33 for about 1 minute (same remedy as above) before changing to signal 13.

Any recommendations or advice?

Thanks!!

Have you tried igniting it manually?

Look out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES!

[NovaTTT 2]

No luck, Den.

I jumped the limit switch (FRS switch), which wasn't tripped open, but the ignitor didn't respond, so it doesn't appear to be faulty.

It seems to me the next likely culprit is the diaphram, which might not be signalling negative pressure for the exhaust of combustion gasses. I'll get a new one in the morning.

If that doens't work I'll have to replace the board, which will be a tedious pain in the ass.

Thanks all for the advice and input.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[NovaTTT 2]

It's not that kind of furnace, Pete. Thanks anyway.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[kawisixer01 0]

Quote

No luck, Den.

I jumped the limit switch (FRS switch), which wasn't tripped open, but the ignitor didn't respond, so it doesn't appear to be faulty.

It seems to me the next likely culprit is the diaphram, which might not be signalling negative pressure for the exhaust of combustion gasses. I'll get a new one in the morning.

If that doens't work I'll have to replace the board, which will be a tedious pain in the ass.

Thanks all for the advice and input.

The diaphram was going to be my next suggestion. Although there should be a fault just for that interlock. Do you have a copy of the wiring schematic? The last thing that I saw kicking out a residential furnace that I worked on was the sensor that sensed if the water drain tube was plugged and shut down the burner if the water got high enough to complete the circuit of the sensor (mounted in plastic to insulate). If the snesor touched water and conducted juice through the water into the grounded frame the water would gather in it would shut it down. I'm sorry this is being such a bugger. Troubleshooting without being there in person is a pitb.

[NovaTTT 2]

Thanks, Joel.

The water drain doesn't seem to be plugged or blocked and it's well-insulated against ambient temps.

That being said, if a new diaphram doesn't work I'll disconnect and check everything up to the condensor heat exchange before replacing the board.

Thanks.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[NovaTTT 2]

Update on the Furnace Situation:

I'd like to offer a general and giant "FUCK!"

Neither the new limit switch nor the new pressure sensor resolved the problem and the unit is still showing signal 33/13.

So having been through each step along the way, I'm going to have to get a new board and hook that bad boy up. A complete and thorough pain in the ass that's going to be.

Thanks again for the advice, tips and suggestions. I'll post progress again as warranted, if anyone is interested.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[kawisixer01 0]

One other thought. Did you check the voltage going to those sensors and make sure it's a 24v dc plus or minus like one or two volts max? Maybe the power supply is flaky?

[NovaTTT 2]

No. I didn't check the v into the switch and sensor because there is no sign or evidence of a supply problem through those wires. I'm going now to get the new circuit board; I hope I'm not going to be kicking myself in the ass later.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[NovaTTT 2]

The heat is working as of 3 PM this afternoon.

After replacing the rollout switch, diaphram pressure switch and then the circuit board the darn furnace still didn't work and gave the same lockout code (33/13)!

I admit to being very disappointed. Turns out the solution was very simple: the automatic switch, which is well concealed behind the upper fan/gas assembly, had a wire connection that was loose.

The connector had to be squeezed tight and then re-attached to the lead.

What a pain in the neck this job was.

Thankfully the oven repair was much easier.

The oven stopped working and my wife, who enjoys baking, was insistent that I get it fixed pronto.

One ignitor later and she's up and baking.

If only all repairs were so straightforward and simple.

Thanks for the input, all. Cheers and beers!

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[DeNReN 0]

[kawisixer01 0]

(hand to forhead smack) yea this is something at work that we would call "the dreaded loose neutral". lol. We also have an "Award" for the process of throwing lots of parts at and overthinking a problem only for it to be something stupidly simple. It's funny cause it's named after an individual that was famous for this.
Good to hear your back up and running. I too will be fixing the oven this weekend so I feel your pain.

[NovaTTT 2]

I suppose the problem is having to resolve all the usual suspects before an open circuit persists and there's only Choice A or Choice B left. It sucks, Joel!

Since I was absolutely certain of the connections and integrity of the circuit board connections, it had to be a bad wire in the circulation system, right?

I was dreading having to search for a short among the tangled spaghetti mess of wires. Turned out checking connections first led to the damned thing, which is the furthest, deepest set and least likliest suspect!

A loose terminal. Shite!! That was one very expensive re-crimp and plug!

Palm to forehead? There aren't palms or foreheads big enough!!!!

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73