Spectre 150 - Interesting openings

[flipper 0]

Has anybody out there jumping a Spectre suffered from the following ...

once the canopy has fully opened it starts to rock backwards and forwards ... feels as if it is going to stall on the backwards swing

Canopy had done 20 jumps from new

The canopy performs like this weather its loaded heavily ot lightly - ( 1.1 ~ 1.5 )

Not yet checked the trim ( will be done this weekend )

It has been jumped in various different containers to omit the container being the root cause

any ides .... any help

Thanks

Flipper

PS .. PD have been contacted ... was just wondering if anybody out there had suffered the same problem

[bob.dino 1]

Nope. Not on mine...

[ph8068 0]

How fast are the openings? The standard Spectre snivel or faster than this?

[flipper 0]

Fairly standard snivel verging on slightly faster .... have jumped several other Spectres to see how they compared

[mjosparky 4]

Check your brake setting when stowed. It sounds like it is opening with either too much or not enough brake.

Sparky

Trim chart:

http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/linetrims/SP_150-230LT.pdf

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[flipper 0]

will cover this when I do the trim this weekend ....

thanks

[darkwing 5]

I have 600 spectre 190 jumps, and a teammate has nearly as many on a spectre 170. We both have had this. In discussions with PD at a boogie, they instantly knew what I was describing. They called it a "bottom skin inflation" and attributed it to pulling the slider out too far in front when packing.

It didn't happen too often, I'd say very roughly 1 in 30 jumps for me. I think less often for my teammate. After a while it quit bothering me. I just considered it a "different" opening, as it never showed a tendency to be a problem.

Not to worry...

Edit to add: This behavior was independent of canopy/line age. It happened when new, and just before the lines were replaced at 400 jumps, and kept happening after the new lines.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[flipper 0]

so far 20 jumps on the canopy from new and almost every opening has been of the rocking backwards and forwards type

not real bothered with it ... my intension was to use the canopy for birdman jumps ...

I do make sure that the slider in well presented when packing .... can try reducing its exposure during the opening by packing it into the pack job

[dragon2 2]

Mine did this as well when it was still new. After a while (50 jumps or so, don't know) the openings became more smooth.

Now this was my first ZP canopy, in a rig where it fit in snug, and I was learning to pack ZP here too (although most of the first 100 jumps on this canopy I had it packed for me). Also, I lengthened the brake lines somewhere around the same number of jumps the openings became better, too.

So no one-fix but it DID stop.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[upndownshop 0]

Yup, When it first started it was a little nerve racking, but then when I figured it out I did it for fun.

You are not going to believe this, I say that because of your jump numbers but.......
Opening still moving forward thats what caused mine.
Still in a track...It doesn't take much.
Now I can do it when I choose.

The Spectre seems to be a little more sensitive to that than others.

[flipper 0]

Can accept that I'm maybe doing the moving forward thing .... no probs with that

Two other people have jumped it with the same result

will have a play around with it at the weekend and see what happens

[dragon2 2]

I doubt that, since a lot of people use spectres for wingsuit jumps and are going forward either a lot or a little bit and I've never heard or experienced the rocking doing BM, nor on regular jumps with my spectre 135.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[upndownshop 0]

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I doubt that, since a lot of people use spectres for wingsuit jumps and are going forward either a lot or a little bit and I've never heard or experienced the rocking doing BM, nor on regular jumps with my spectre 135.

I could do it on my 135 and 150 both brand new canopies at the time and I put about 900 jumps between the two. At the time I was about 170#'s plus gear.

Since no two canopies are exactly alike due to fabrics, human assembly and other items, maybe thats it too. Why do some Sabre's slam some people and some don't??


Your wingsuit is a good point, so all i can say different burble, speed don't know? What I do know is that I could do it when I wanted or not.

[riggerrob 643]

Why do some Sabre's slam some people and some don't??

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Because some people are better at packing Sabres.
My original Sabre 170, 150 and 135 only spanked me when I lost control of the slider while stuffing it in the d-bag.
Parachutes are the same as computers: garbage in = garbage out.

[skytash 0]

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I doubt that, since a lot of people use spectres for wingsuit jumps and are going forward either a lot or a little bit and I've never heard or experienced the rocking doing BM, nor on regular jumps with my spectre 135.

Although I haven't done the search yet, I know that this kind of opening has been discussed here, I call them 'jello openings'. I had a few when the canopy had around 200 jumps, checked the trim etc and couldn't find anything wrong, then they stopped. A friend of mine had a similar experience also around 200 jumps on her Spectre. Neither of us were doing birdman at the time and both thought it was more related to the age of the canopies that they became more prone to bottom skin inflation around then.

The slider stowing is new to me though, and is good to know!

tash

Don't ever save anything for a special occasion. Being alive is a special occasion. Avril Sloe

[goose491 0]

The slight forward motion as a culprit sounds legit but if you are experiencing this on one Spectre 150 and not another Specter 150 then we have to trust you that it's the canopy and not body position right?

My first instinct when I read your description was too short a break setting... like the canopy is sorta bucking on the verge of a stall but not that extreme.

Perhaps it's a combination of both. With a short setting, it wouldn't take much forward motion to pedulum you, c.g. forward, nose down, canopy serge a bit... until it realises the breaks are partially set, canopy slows, nose up, pedulum you back, c.g. aft.

Again and again... with the stability that dictates the oscillations will slowly decrease and eventually stop in a slower flight... or cease alltogether when you release the breaks?

...does it cease alltogether if you realease your breaks?

Nick

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[darkwing 5]

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My first instinct when I read your description was too short a break setting... like the canopy is sorta bucking on the verge of a stall but not that extreme...

Nick

That was my sense too, except PD Vladi shot that down. He specifically said raising the tail would make it worse. I didn't try it though to see if he was right.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[goose491 0]

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Quote

My first instinct when I read your description was too short a break setting... like the canopy is sorta bucking on the verge of a stall but not that extreme...

Nick

That was my sense too, except PD Vladi shot that down. He specifically said raising the tail would make it worse. I didn't try it though to see if he was right.

Oh come on! Make your next jump with the toggles unstowed!

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[dragon2 2]

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Oh come on! Make your next jump with the toggles unstowed!

I did that for 2 jumps on hybrid Triathlons 160&150 (WL on the 150 1:1). Openings this way were sloooooow (The 160 had a slider hangup for 3k!).

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Skycaroline 0]

I have two Spectre 120's at present (before that a Spectre 135). I've experienced this on all three canopies up to 200 jumps but not beyond. I found that pulling on the rear risers sorted it quickly - as did unstowing brakes. Canopy flight while it was happening remained on heading - just a little wobbly!
I've just had the older of the Spectre 120s re-lined. Haven't done many jumps on it since (two in fact), but am curious as to whether it will start happening again.

C.

[flipper 0]

yep .... fire the brakes and it stops

[jumpergirl 0]

I have a Spectre 150 and have never had that problem. I bought it new and it has only 5 jumps on it now.

[ryoder 1,590]

In my experience, this is always caused by brakes being set too deep.
Modify the the brake setting to let out about an inch at a time until the surging stops.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[GravityGirl 0]

Brake lines too short?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!