Blue skies Mag with editor

[peanut4040 0]

I don't know;
Do you like girls?

Prefer older experienced ones in my declining years. Ya know,, the type that you can say, "Girl if you want it you're going to have to work for it"

Its a good day to LIVE, why puck up a good thing.

There is no reply in aad section for. " hell no i would not put an AAD on my back"

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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>I'm willing to bet you would not feel the same if it were your cell provider,
>power company or any other business that gave you this kind of tone.

If I didn't like it I'd switch companies.

I think we're starting to see a reaction to all the hate directed at the Skyride phenomenon. They are now being seen as the underdog, someone who is continually attacked by the mainstream, politically correct crowd. And justified or not, some people are starting to defend them from the howling pack.

And to this I say,"What a bunch of fucking morons".

[turtlespeed 226]

Perhaps all you defenders can tell us where or how to find a company that has done as much wrong, and has taken so much good from the SD community.

I'll wait . ..

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[popsjumper 2]

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Last time I checked, I was a woman.

I must strongly agree with this.
Last time I checked, she most definitely was!

So...I assume you have photographic evidence?








*fingers crossed and hoping you'll share*

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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Perhaps all you defenders can tell us where or how to find a company that has done as much wrong, and has taken so much good from the SD community.

I'll wait . ..

I sincerely hope you are not holding your breath.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[skybytch 273]

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I'm willing to bet you would not feel the same if it were your cell provider, power company or any other business that gave you this kind of tone.

You funny. I've gotten the same tone from the electric company and the cell provider. The electric company is a monopoly, kinda like USPA - pay the money or you don't get power/don't get to skydive. That's real obvious when you try to contact them.

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Do you see any professional journalist react with a rant like this.

Of course not. They have bosses above them who are worried that if they don't toe the line, people will stop sending them checks - both advertisers and subscribers.

That's what is refreshing about BSM. They aren't going to censor themselves (or you, for that matter) simply because it might make somebody decide not to send them a check. They know that they can't please everybody and they aren't going to try.

Why is that a bad thing?

[ryoder 1,590]

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Last time I checked, I was a woman.

I must strongly agree with this.
Last time I checked, she most definitely was!

So...I assume you have photographic evidence?

*fingers crossed and hoping you'll share*

No photos, just personal observation.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[NWFlyer 2]

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I think we're starting to see a reaction to all the hate directed at the Skyride phenomenon. They are now being seen as the underdog, someone who is continually attacked by the mainstream, politically correct crowd. And justified or not, some people are starting to defend them from the howling pack.

I don't necessarily see people actively defending Skyride. I see it more that the debate has devolved such that anyone who is not a strident and emotional detractor of Skyride is now viewed as a supporter/defender ("If you don't toe the party line, you're against us"). I've seen that rhetorical style in other circumstances and I'm not fan wherever it appears.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[billvon 3,116]

>I don't necessarily see people actively defending Skyride. I see it more
>that the debate has devolved such that anyone who is not a strident and
>emotional detractor of Skyride is now viewed as a supporter/defender ("If
>you don't toe the party line, you're against us").

Exactly. And once you say that enough, people will start believing you. Once you've defined Perris, Elsinore, Blue Skies Magazine, the US Nationals etc as "part of evil skyride," people are going to start thinking "fuck the political party line, I want to skydive - and if some of those angry dudes get even more offended, good." And the discussion changes from the relative merits of Skyride to a group of skydivers defending themselves against another small, vocal group that wants to shut them down.

[IanHarrop 42]

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If we fucked up, I'd absolutely admit it and ask for forgiveness. Sure, some women lie, and some men lie. I try not to, and I certainly won't lie and say I'm sorry for something that I'm not even a little bit sorry for, just to keep your money. If you don't want to give us your money because you disagree with something we do or say, that's fine.

It cuts both ways - we'll never say something we don't believe to get or keep an advertiser's money, and we'll never say something we don't believe to get or keep subscriber's money.

I think we can have a community of wildly different opinions. Want to write an article stating your case? We'd love to print it.

This response just reinforced my respect for Lara. She has always been a lady of principle.

Keep doing what you do Lara.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[Bolas 5]

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>I don't necessarily see people actively defending Skyride. I see it more
>that the debate has devolved such that anyone who is not a strident and
>emotional detractor of Skyride is now viewed as a supporter/defender ("If
>you don't toe the party line, you're against us").

Exactly. And once you say that enough, people will start believing you. Once you've defined Perris, Elsinore, Blue Skies Magazine, the US Nationals etc as "part of evil skyride," people are going to start thinking "fuck the political party line, I want to skydive - and if some of those angry dudes get even more offended, good." And the discussion changes from the relative merits of Skyride to a group of skydivers defending themselves against another small, vocal group that wants to shut them down.

The simple matter is SR exists because we as a community have chosen to simply allow it to exist. There's always money to be made short term by disregarding the future impact.

If DZs wouldn't partner with them and people wouldn't work for them, they'd have gone under long ago without the need for lawsuits and other legal action.

Like most issues, there are multiple sides with various levels of apathy as well. It's not just an us vs. them and anyone trying to equate it to that is oversimplifying and hurting their argument.

It's best to just state the facts by following the money: From most to least support.

* ASC, SDG, AST, and any other DZs directly or indirectly run by whatever they call their company now.

* Working for or doing work for any of the above.

* Fun jumping at one of the above DZs.

* Any affiliate DZ that accepts SR.

* Working for or doing work for one of the affiliate DZs.

* Fun jumping at one of the affiliate DZs.

* Being a USPA member.

I have purposely left off equipment manufacturers as what they offer aside from possible discounts or sponsorships only allows SR or an affiliate to make more profit, they don't directly contribute.

If you want to skydive, and don't like SR it can be very hard to avoid supporting SR in some way. It can be done, but it's too much trouble for most.

It's all about education and people realizing and accepting what they're doing and choosing what's acceptable and comfortable to them.

My personal level is fun jumping at an affiliate DZ.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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>I don't necessarily see people actively defending Skyride. I see it more
>that the debate has devolved such that anyone who is not a strident and
>emotional detractor of Skyride is now viewed as a supporter/defender ("If
>you don't toe the party line, you're against us").

Exactly. And once you say that enough, people will start believing you. Once you've defined Perris, Elsinore, Blue Skies Magazine, the US Nationals etc as "part of evil skyride," people are going to start thinking "fuck the political party line, I want to skydive - and if some of those angry dudes get even more offended, good." And the discussion changes from the relative merits of Skyride to a group of skydivers defending themselves against another small, vocal group that wants to shut them down.

You are right and I hope some of those people are listening.

[Nutz 0]

What I had the biggest problem with was you saying that their unfair business practices are "alleged". I think after you have lost a lawsuit it is not "alleged" anymore - it is a fact.

"Don't! Get! Eliminated!"

[skydived19006 4]

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I think we can have a community of wildly different opinions. Want to write an article stating your case? We'd love to print it.

That reads to me like an open invitation to me. Believe it or not, there are skydivers who don't have a clue what Skyride is, take the opportunity to write an explanation article. Laura indicated that she/they would print it!

Anyone,...anyone....

Edit to add:
I've met Laura, she's not only female but in my opinion quite physically attractive. Beyond the physical, she's intelligent and from what little I know of her she's also simply a good sweet person. In my book, that combination is simply sexy!

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[DanG 1]

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rant like this.

Is that the one you admit you haven't read?

- Dan G

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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rant like this.

Is that the one you admit you haven't read?

No, that would be the one posted here. Any other questions?

[DanG 1]

Sure, do you really consider that a rant? Maybe you should read it again.

Like another poster said, the anti-Skyride thing has gotten ridiculous. To the fanatics, a person can be anti-Skyride, but still not anti-Skyride enough. It really makes people turn a deaf ear to otherwise legitimate points.

- Dan G

[CSpenceFLY 1]

While I agree with you, do you really feel the need to explain the situation again? I already agreed with Bilvon.

My reason for putting in my .02 was in hope that they would not get into a pissing contest that would ultimately hurt the magazine. I think that disrespectful responses form business people might rub people the wrong way who couldn't care less about the rest of this.

Maybe you go back and re read what I posted here.

[MakeItHappen 15]

My subscription must have run out.
Someone please send me a copy of what you are talking about.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[DanG 1]

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While I agree with you, do you really feel the need to explain the situation again? I already agreed with Bilvon.

I was just stating my opinion. I was trying to avoid getting into a semantics argument with you, and I just took the opportunity you presented by refering to Lara rather reasonable post as a rant. I took that as a sign that you were espousing the "with us or against us" mentality, but apparently I misunderstood. Sorry.

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My reason for putting in my .02 was in hope that they would not get into a pissing contest that would ultimately hurt the magazine. I think that disrespectful responses form business people might rub people the wrong way who couldn't care less about the rest of this.

Maybe you go back and re read what I posted here.

I did reread it, and I think I missed some of your point the first time. I disagree, however, that Lara's post was disrespectful in any way. She made a statement, and is sticking by it. The fact that refuses to grovel to out of control fanatics on DZ.com is great.

- Dan G

[livendive 8]

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Like another poster said, the anti-Skyride thing has gotten ridiculous. To the fanatics, a person can be anti-Skyride, but still not anti-Skyride enough. It really makes people turn a deaf ear to otherwise legitimate points.

I like that some people keep them busy & keep costing them money. My protests are much more limited. When Skyride calls me to ask if I'll do business with them, I refuse. Their customers then have to drive 350+ miles to redeem their certificate, driving right past our place about 50 miles into their trip. When said students call me about their problem, I express sympathy for the fact that they've fallen victim to a scam. Perhaps if "Skydive Spokane" made it clear they have no facilities within 300 miles of Spokane, the victims would have a fighting chance.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[normiss 897]

Renew!

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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While I agree with you, do you really feel the need to explain the situation again? I already agreed with Bilvon.

I was just stating my opinion. I was trying to avoid getting into a semantics argument with you, and I just took the opportunity you presented by refering to Lara rather reasonable post as a rant. I took that as a sign that you were espousing the "with us or against us" mentality, but apparently I misunderstood. Sorry.

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My reason for putting in my .02 was in hope that they would not get into a pissing contest that would ultimately hurt the magazine. I think that disrespectful responses form business people might rub people the wrong way who couldn't care less about the rest of this.

Maybe you go back and re read what I posted here.

I did reread it, and I think I missed some of your point the first time. I disagree, however, that Lara's post was disrespectful in any way. She made a statement, and is sticking by it. The fact that refuses to grovel to out of control fanatics on DZ.com is great.

It is possible to stick to you opinion without being harsh. Anyone who knows me will undoubtedly see the irony in me posting this tidbit of life advise.

[NWFlyer 2]

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My subscription must have run out.
Someone please send me a copy of what you are talking about.

.

I haven't received the actual issue yet (though I read what I could on the website or it might have been Facebook photo of the front cover), so it may well be that your subscription is still active.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[larakiyomi 0]

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I think we're starting to see a reaction to all the hate directed at the Skyride phenomenon. They are now being seen as the underdog, someone who is continually attacked by the mainstream, politically correct crowd. And justified or not, some people are starting to defend them from the howling pack.

I don't necessarily see people actively defending Skyride. I see it more that the debate has devolved such that anyone who is not a strident and emotional detractor of Skyride is now viewed as a supporter/defender ("If you don't toe the party line, you're against us"). I've seen that rhetorical style in other circumstances and I'm not fan wherever it appears.

This is kind of where I see it going, too. I know why SkyRide is BAD, I just want to know why they're the WORST, which is how people treat them. I agree that they're BAD and I'm all for steps to shut them down. Now, we sent support to a boogie that's tangentially theirs - you can make the case that that action did the opposite of what I just said I'm all for, and I'll understand. I understand the argument for us being wrong, and I see its merit. I just see it otherwise - but can still respect that you see things differently.

My question is really this, again - how is SkyRide WORSE than a drop zone that knowingly disregards basic airplane maintenance, which results in skydivers dying? How is SkyRide WORSE than a drop zone built on drug money? How is SkyRide WORSE than a manufacturer that doesn't issue timely safety bulletins when it knows that SB could save lives? How is SkyRide the WORST?

Why is it so cool to hate SkyRide with such passion, but not these other entities? Why a campaign to get people to unsubscribe from us, but not a campaign to stop jumping at unsafe drop zones? I know there are people who won't jump at certain DZs, but it's not the huge lynch mob that I see when it comes to SkyRide. And really, I really want to know what it is that gets people so incredibly heated about this.

With regards to our business practice, Spence, I don't mean to give the impression that it's our way or the highway. If you tell us you want more boogie articles, we're sure as shit going to print more boogie articles. You want less boogie articles? You got it. We're never going to say we believe in something just because we think you'll give us your money if we say it, though. I don't see that as being anti-customer or ranting, just being someone I don't mind looking in the mirror at everyday.

Thanks for all the support, too, I love that a reasonable, level-headed conversation is taking place in bonfire :) And, we really do want articles, letters and opinion pieces from everyone. We're failing if we personally agree with everything we print.

Blue Skies Mag