traker 0 #1 March 3, 2005 What's up everyone...... I'm not brand new to the site or sport but this is my first post. I have 56 jumps and i'm starting to look into getting my own rig. I have the money and I've flown my friends saber 190, which I was told was a very forgiving and all aroung great starter rig. I'm completely inept when it comes to talking about types, styles and advantages of certain rigs. My question to all you guys is......" what would a f-111, 9 cell main consist of? " I know what the 9 cell means but what is the F-111? I know you guys might think i'm a dolt, but I gotta learn somewhere. Thanks!! Traker "we can either clmib down...or take the 15 second express shuttle" ---- during a snow storm on a 1000 foot antenna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EDYDO 0 #2 March 3, 2005 F111 is the type of fabric. It was used some years ago on most if not all main canopies. For the most part it has been replaced with zero-p which is more "air tight". It is so tight that most of the air that escapes, does so through the stitching rather than the fabric. This makes a new canopy difficult to pack. The F111 is still used, just not as much. In my opinion, buying an F111 main will give you a canopy with little or no resale value and less flare, which equates to a harder landing. Ed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #3 March 3, 2005 I have flown F-111 canopies before and have never had a hard landing.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #4 March 3, 2005 True. F111 can land you softly. It just a different beast. It should not be loaded the way a ZP is. If you are going to jump an F111, I would not recommend exceeding 1:1 wing loading. Also they fewer jumps on it the better. Under 500 is good. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #5 March 3, 2005 Quote True. F111 can land you softly. It just a different beast Correct. Landing a canopy is not about the type of material, it is about technique. Different canopies require different methods of flying and landing. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
traker 0 #6 March 4, 2005 Damn...... That was fast! I have to acknowledge the quick reply. Edydo, GTAVercetti, Gravity Girl and Mjosparky.....a million thanks! Greatly appreciated! My second question will most likely prove to be as elementary as the first. First question: I am incessantly reading on the blinc forums ( base jump forums). Perplexing enough; one of the posts, recommends getting a F-111 as a starter rig. Does anyone know why this is so? ZP's clearly seem to be more propitious! Second question: loaded..... unloaded? Jumpers talking about 1.0 or 1.0 wing loading? In all, honesty...It's all jargon to me... Could someone hold my hand on this one, because i'm lost. Thanks again! Traker "we can either clmib down...or take the 15 second express shuttle" ---- during a snow storm on a 1000 foot antenna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewGPM 0 #7 March 4, 2005 I hope this doesn't sound mean...but what the heck did they teach you during your student jumps? I can see how you MIGHT not hear about F-111 fabric. It seems crazy that anyone would get to 50 jumps without learning about wing loading. I think it's on the A license tests! It's in the SIM for sure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
traker 0 #8 March 4, 2005 A) I don't have a licence b) I took a seven hour class three years ago, did two jumps the first year, a few more the year after that , then went hard the next summer. Where I come from, we only jump four , maybe five months of the year. So... does this mean you will answer the questions? "we can either clmib down...or take the 15 second express shuttle" ---- during a snow storm on a 1000 foot antenna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
traker 0 #9 March 4, 2005 In regards to student jumps. There really weren't any actual student jumps where we landed and then fully evaluated on our performance. No classes or anything have ever been offered to each us the inner most workings of the systems or even the simplest! "we can either clmib down...or take the 15 second express shuttle" ---- during a snow storm on a 1000 foot antenna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #10 March 4, 2005 Wing loading is fairly simple.. Add your weight and all of your gear together... the sum is your EXIT WEIGHT. The if your exit weight is 190 pounds.... and you have a 190 SQ FT Canopy.. you have a 1 to 1 wingload. The if your exit weight is 190 pounds.... and you have an 89 SQ FT Canopy.. you have a 2.1 to 1 wingload. If your exit weight is 290 pounds.. and you are jumping that same 190 SQ FT Canopy.. you have a wingload of 1.5 to 1. How you wold fly and land each one of those would depend on the cnaopy 7 cell v 9 cell....eliptical v taperd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
traker 0 #11 March 4, 2005 Amazon..... You're a doll! Tank you..... Now....I think you know what the next question is. Eliptical or taperd? What are the advantages, which is better for what. What do you fly and why? I know it's a lot of questions... I just feel like I missed the bus and I have to catch it before someone notices I'm not there!! Traker "we can either clmib down...or take the 15 second express shuttle" ---- during a snow storm on a 1000 foot antenna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #12 March 4, 2005 Quote Where I come from, we only jump four , maybe five months of the year Where do you come from? Sparky Real Name: No name entered. Email: No email entered. Jump Profile Home DZ: No home dropzone entered. Gear Container: No container entered. Main Canopy: No main entered. Reserve Canopy: No reserve entered. AAD: No AAD entered.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #13 March 4, 2005 Basically its the shape of the canopy (wing) . I would say for you starting out in skydiving go with a fairly docile square or a semi tapered.. and you will want to stay away from an elliptical for quite a while. Let me give you some links to some GOOD READING.. Performance Designs Education site http://www.performancedesigns.com/education.asp Canopy Control articles here on DIZZY DOT COM http://www.dropzone.com/safety/Canopy_Control/index.shtml Elliptical canopies are high performance and you need to do a canopy progression to work up to them.. they are twitchier to fly and bring a whole set of new and interesting flight characteristics/ and or malfunctions. Line twists that are fairly easy to clear on a big ole 7 cell square like the Triathalon I just sold... can go into a very fast spin on my Samurai that can spill off a thousand feet very very rapidly while pulling excessive G forces preventing you from kicking out of them. I fly the Samurai Elliptical because of its performance and it’s a hell of a lot of fun to fly. I load it at 1.5 to 1 and with its airlock design( a flap inside the canopy to keep it pressurized) the wing stays more rigid in places where you get squirrelly air. We have BIG ASS trees up here in the Pacific NorthWET that can make for interesting rotors ( turbulent rotating air as it blows over obstacles) and I also travel to places that have hot desert conditions with thermals and dust devils... I LOVE how my canopy flies in that stuff ( UH caveat here to keep the canopy nazi’s at bay…... if you see a dust devil.. AVOID it.. if you see dust devils around... you may want to just stay on the ground) My D license number is low enough that I know when its time to sit down and watch others who are more bold and will hurt a lot more when they are old. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #14 March 4, 2005 Quote First question: I am incessantly reading on the blinc forums ( base jump forums). Perplexing enough; one of the posts, recommends getting a F-111 as a starter rig. Does anyone know why this is so? ZP's clearly seem to be more propitious! BASE is not skydiving, skydiving is not BASE. What is good for one is not nessaserily the best choice for the other. Think about this - reserves parachutes are our last chance... they're all F-111. Our first chance may be made of ZP, but our last chance is made of F-111. A BASE jumper has only one parachute - that one parachute is his last chance. What would you make it out of? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #15 March 4, 2005 Quote True. F111 can land you softly. It just a different beast. It should not be loaded the way a ZP is. If you are going to jump an F111, I would not recommend exceeding 1:1 wing loading. Also they fewer jumps on it the better. Under 500 is good. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's mess with the ZP-all-the-way fanatics by reminding them that their reserves are still made of F-111 fabric. Heee! Heee! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #16 March 4, 2005 BASE has partial ZP canopies also Talk to the BASE guys on the reasons why, but a lot of it has to do with glide rate and other factors. Seriously talk to the BASE guys before even thinking about going down that path. A lot of them will look at your currency and have questions. They will almost require you to learn so much about your gear you could become a rigger if you wanted to before you even made your first jump.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
traker 0 #17 March 5, 2005 To all of you crazy cats... Nothing but smooth benedictions for the links and the information..... My first post has proved to be extremely beneficial! I appreciate the help! When wing loading, would one in my position capitalize flying at 1.1? Is flying anything over one only optional after a bit more experience? I weight 145 soaking wet, so flying the saber 190 would make it .8 to 1.0. I had no troubles landing it and it wasn't as intimidating as I thought. Mr2mk1g and Phreezone: thanks for the incite and advice. There is a discerning edge and a feel of select knowledge from what I read. I don't consider b.a.s.e. jumping anytime soon..... just later! Mjosparky: I live in Winnipeg, Manitoba ( long bitter winters and hellishly hot short summers!) I haven't updated my profile yet.... Traker "we can either clmib down...or take the 15 second express shuttle" ---- during a snow storm on a 1000 foot antenna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #18 March 5, 2005 The wingloading for you depends greatly on what your instructors think you are ready for. Dont get in a rush to downsize... When I came back to the sport after a 22 year layoff I was fairly conservative and opted for 1 to 1 for pretty much my first year and 200 jumps back.. That said I did demo some smaller canopys and in no wind.. I would have to say I was not ready for the amount of lift when going from a 7 cell zpcanopy at 1 to 1 to a 9 cell canopy at 1.3 to 1. They fly diffrerently and when you put on the brakes on a 9 cell in one motion as you would on a 7 cell.. I found myself a bit further off the ground than I wanted... and with still too much speed....... at least the Factory reps from PD and Mirage.. got a good chuckle out of that landing.. I got a little pasture rash there at Lost Prairie.... LUCKILY I did not get to eat any meadow muffin as some people there did. At the time I had only about 100 jumps back in the sport. After that I took it easy for the next 100 jumps or so... and denoed other canopys.. at sea level Sine you are in Winnipeg.. you are not that far from Lost Prairie... you should come on down at the end of July... its one hell of a good party and LOTS of Canadians come down for some good times. I will be staying in Camp Canada with some really good people....EH Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
traker 0 #19 March 6, 2005 Amazon..... If my skydiving career ever amounts to anything of significance or if I win an oscar... you're getting a shout out! Thanks again for the help! That being said, I think I will get something along the lines of a zp, taperd 190 or something a little smaller. What do you think? Now, if you could furnish as to where Lost Prairie is, that would be awesome. As long as you guys can provide blue skies and cold beer, i'm there ( canadian beer of course!!! ) Traker "we can either clmib down...or take the 15 second express shuttle" ---- during a snow storm on a 1000 foot antenna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #20 March 6, 2005 ITs in Montana... between Libby and Kalispell.. just off US 2... Fun starts on 23 July and lasts till Aug 1.. Not that far from Winnipeg... There is plenty of Canadian Beer but DUDE the Lang Creek Brewry.... Americas most remote brewery is right there a few miles from the DZ.. and I have YET to have ANY beer there that was not some good stuff.... and NO I do not drink Lite Beer.( yucka pucka) Skydiver Blonde.... RAWKS AS far as the canopy choice.. get a used canopy for a while... save money and get your air skills in order then when you are ready and really can fly your first canopy.. downsize. Dont get in a rush to downsize. Downsizing too quickly can kill you. AS far as what to get.. talk to your instructors.. Talk to the experienced people at your DZ who can watch your landings and canopy skills. OH and as far as that cold long winter.. GET on a plane and head south to Eloy in the winter... LOTS of Canadians down there in JAN... Called the Canadian Invasion. and ELOY RAWKS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
traker 0 #21 March 6, 2005 You better be checking your e-mail when summer comes around because I'll be needing directiions... HOOYAH! Traker "we can either clmib down...or take the 15 second express shuttle" ---- during a snow storm on a 1000 foot antenna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #22 March 6, 2005 Quote Mjosparky: I live in Winnipeg, Manitoba ( long bitter winters and hellishly hot short summers!) I haven't updated my profile yet.... Thanks, SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amanduh 0 #23 March 9, 2005 Heads up...most DZ's (USPA Member Dropzones) will require you to have at least an A-license. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
traker 0 #24 March 9, 2005 When the season starts... I will be on that like white on rice dadio. At the end of last summer, I was told to practice and perfection left and right 360 ,front and back flips ,barrel rolls and tracking. I don't what else would need to be known for the test. Thanks for the heads up anyway... I appreciate it... Traker "we can either clmib down...or take the 15 second express shuttle" ---- during a snow storm on a 1000 foot antenna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
