Senior Riggors and Mains

[rushmc 23]

I was wondering how many people out there have heard that a Senior rigger is no longer able (legally) to re-line main canopys?

Also being considered is whether a Master rigger should be the only one allowed to do assemblies?

Comments?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[councilman24 37]

This is a matter of great debate between riggers, DPRE's and even manufacturers. The FAA doesn't have a clear interpretation either. Several people have asked for a definative interpretation by the FAA. Considering that parachutes are low on their priority I don't expect an answer from them soon.

This is no NEW decision or change. Only the same differing opinions that have been debated for years. Many will tell you that their differing opinions are right and the law. In fact they are simply either individual opinions and interpretations of the FAR's or local FAA inspectors opinions and interpretations. The the FAA opinions differ also.

In the absence of an interpretation by headquarters, the only important interpretation is that of the FAA inspector standing in front of you, if in fact they care.

The assembly issue we cleared up several years ago, although it still rears it's ugly head from time to time. It came out of a senior rigger being cited for assembling AAD's into rigs already set up for them. PIA went to bat and all those charges were dropped.

Chair, PIA Rigging Committee

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[johnny1488 1]

Having just obtained my senior ticket, I am wondering what the previous interpetation or rule was. I was under the impression that a reline was a major repair, therefore under the realm of the master rigger. I also thought that assembly fell under the realm of maintenance. Is this correct? Ass for the AAD, putting one in an existing pocket was an assembly, while putting in the pocket was an alteration.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[councilman24 37]

The question is whether the major, minor, and alteration versus senior and master apply to the non approved main or just the reserve/harness system. You can read the language of the FAR's both ways, many riggers have been taught one or the other interpretation as the gospel, and the fed's don't agree among themselves.

Go to pia.com, register for the rigger's forum since you have your ticket and read the ongoing debate there. Too much to reproduce here.

BTW we have this debate at EVERY PIA rigging committee meeting and routinely here. There is no concensus and won't be until the FAA headquarters makes an interpretation. AT LEAST two people have requested one in writting and others have requested it verbally from headquarters staff they know.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[rushmc 23]

Interesting because the DPRE running the riggers course I was just at told me Senior riggers could no longer re-line main canoy's?? Now I am even more confused

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mjosparky 4]

Subpart F—Parachute Riggers
§ 65.111 Certificate required.


(b) No person may pack, maintain, or alter any main parachute of a dual-parachute system to be used for intentional parachute jumping in connection with civil aircraft of the United States unless that person—
(1) Has an appropriate current certificate issued under this subpart;
(2) Is under the supervision of a current certificated parachute rigger;
(3) Is the person making the next parachute jump with that parachute in accordance with §105.43(a) of this chapter; or

§ 105.43 Use of single-harness, dual-parachute systems.


(a) The main parachute must have been packed within 120 days before the date of its use of a certificated parachute rigger, the person making the next jump with that parachute or a non-certificated person under the direct supervision of a certification parachute rigger.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[riggerrob 643]

Quote

I was wondering how many people out there have heard that a Senior rigger is no longer able (legally) to re-line main canopys?

Also being considered is whether a Master rigger should be the only one allowed to do assemblies?

Comments?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The regulation has not changed, but every few years, someone TRIES to change it.
Replacing a line has always been considered a major repair because ... if done sloppily, it would adversely affect the structural, opening or flying characteristics of the parachute.
Major repairs have always been limited to Master Riggers or factories.

Hint: most of the people trying to change this regulation lack the sewing machines or skills to replace lines.
They just enjoy debating.
Hee!
Hee!

Finally, don't waste your time asking the FAA because
A: few current riggers work for the FAA.
B: FAA bureaucrats have far more important things to worry about.

[councilman24 37]

And the perennial debate... does major repair by master apply to a main.

My last comment on the subject here, maybe. Everybody thinks they are right so for them there is no debate.

And the question is what should the regs say versus what they do say. I truely believe you can read them either way.

Bye, for now.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Hooknswoop 19]

Here are the old and the new FAR’s Part 65.111:

Effective 8/10/1962:

Sec. 65.111

Certificate required.

(a) No person may pack, maintain, or alter any personnel-carrying parachute intended for emergency use in connection with civil aircraft of the United States (including the auxiliary parachute of a dual parachute pack to be used for intentional jumping) unless he holds an appropriate current certificate and type rating issued under this subpart and complies with §§65.127 through 65.133.
(b) No person may pack, maintain, or alter any main parachute of a dual parachute pack to be used for intentional jumping in connection with civil aircraft of the United States unless he has an appropriate current certificate issued under this subpart. However, a person who does not hold such a certificate may pack the main parachute of a dual parachute pack that is to be used by him for intentional jumping.
(c) Each person who holds a parachute rigger certificate shall present it for inspection upon the request of the Administrator or an authorized representative of the National Transportation Safety Board, or of any Federal, State, or local law enforcement officer.
(d) The following parachute rigger certificates are issued under this part:
(1) Senior parachute rigger.
(2) Master parachute rigger.
(e) Sections 65.127 through 65.133 do not apply to parachutes packed, maintained, or altered for the use of the armed forces.


Effective 07/09/2001:

Sec. 65.111

Certificate required.

(a) No person may pack, maintain, or alter any personnel-carrying parachute intended for emergency use in connection with civil aircraft of the United States (including the [reserve parachute of a dual parachute system to be used for intentional parachute jumping) unless that person holds an appropriate current certificate and type rating issued under this subpart and complies with §§65.127 through 65.133.
(b) No person may pack, maintain, or alter any main parachute of a dual parachute system to be used for intentional parachute jumping in connection with civil aircraft of the United States unless that person --
(1) Has an appropriate current certificate issued under this subpart.;
(2) Is under the supervision of a current certificated parachute rigger;
(3) Is the person making the next parachute jump with that parachute in accordance with Sec. 105.43(a) of this chapter; or
(4) Is the parachutist in command making the next parachute jump with that parachute in a tandem parachute operation conducted under Sec. 105.45(b)(1) of this chapter.]
(c) Each person who holds a parachute rigger certificate shall present it for inspection upon the request of the Administrator or an authorized representative of the National Transportation Safety Board, or of any Federal, State, or local law enforcement officer.
(d) The following parachute rigger certificates are issued under this part:
(1) Senior parachute rigger.
(2) Master parachute rigger.
(e) Sections 65.127 through 65.133 do not apply to parachutes packed, maintained, or altered for the use of the armed forces.


The change to FAR Part 65.111 (b) clarifies who may pack, maintain or alter main parachutes. The local Denver FSDO Inspector (a Master Rigger) said that anyone listed in (b) 1 through 4 may “may pack, maintain, or alter any main parachute of a dual parachute system”, which is how the FAR reads. Another Inspector at another FSDO, said “No.”, a Senior Rigger cannot alter a main canopy. I have requested a legal interpretation from the FAA on the matter, several months ago. So far, no word back yet. PD will send a new line set to a owner or Senior Rigger. The FAA considers a change to how a canopy is packed an alteration. Since the next person jumping the canopy may alter it, it is legal for the next person jumping to change how it is packed.

Derek

[rushmc 23]

Thanks....to you and everyone for the information.

Interesting stuff huh?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln