Fun wingsuit flight

[wrightskyguy 1]

Well, for starters, your buddy's jumpsuit is hideous and makes his butt look big. Secondly, aside from the acrobatic guy in the beginning, your video is boring and lacks any kind of artistic character. What was your motivation? Seriously, I'd rather watch Amish porn than this pointless video drivel.

John Wright

World's most beloved skydiver

[Squeak 17]

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We, I'd rather watch Amish porn than this pointless video drivel.

Dude that stuff is PREMO, those cloistered dudes are SICK

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[davelepka 4]

Mr yellow/green jumpsuit has his bridle hanging out of the side of his main pin cover flap. There should be no bridle visisble when the rig is properly closed.

Also, it looks like the earphone wire for his iPod is hanging out of the back of his helmet with quite a bit of slack swinging around. Even if I leave out the part about having headphones in his helmet, he could manage that wire better.

In terms of your buddy in the falt spin, yeah, you guys coudl have followed him down. You were probably pretty far from the airport at exit, and you don't have any 'glide' in a flat spin.

Best case scenario - he gets it cleared up in short order, and you continue on with your three way.

Wrost case scenario - he never gets it cleared up, and his Cypres fires with him still in a spin. Severe line twists on his reserve, he's dizzy and maybe can't see straight, has hard landing off-ariport and is injured. With you chasing him down to 3k, you're on location within minutes. Leaving him to fend for himself, he lays out there until the DZ sends the plane back up to fly a search pattern in the area toward the end of jumprun. (Of course the real worst case is that he's goes in and is laying dead somewhere, but there's not much you can do for that).

[JohnMitchell 16]

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We, I'd rather watch Amish porn than this pointless video drivel.

Dude that stuff is PREMO, those cloistered dudes are SICK

And the sheepskins for condoms , , ,

[JohnMitchell 16]

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Worst case ...what if the AAD didn't save him, he'd be out there for a very long time since no one saw where he 'went in'.

Naw, I've jumped there. From where the spot was, that's a very crowded area on the ground. Someone'll find him.

[ryoder 1,590]

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We, I'd rather watch Amish porn than this pointless video drivel.

Dude that stuff is PREMO, those cloistered dudes are SICK

Amish porn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjDJWmx0WKA

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[NWFlyer 2]

So how did things turn out for your friend with the flat spin? When did he recover? Was he able to make it to the landing area safely?

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[JohnRich 4]

I know you've been jumping for two years, and therefore know everything there is to know about skydiving. But in this case, quade is right, and you are wrong.

And with your attitude, now gone public, you might find it increasingly difficult in the future to get people to jump with you.

Hopefully you won't find yourself some day in trouble, and everyone else has the same attitude as you do, and says; "Fuck him, let's ignore his problem and go have fun!"

Good luck!

But hey, you've got Mad Skilz, right? So that kind of thing will never happen to you...

And by the way, you posted this topic in the wrong forum too. Somehow, despite 2500 posts, you managed not to figure that out yet.

[LouDiamond 1]

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This was a great wingsuit flight me and my buddy Tom did today. I CHALLENGE you drama-zone people to point out ONE thing I did wrong on this jump. The jump was great, The deployment was awesome, and the pattern was good.

JUST ONE! that is all I'm asking for to point out where I could have done better on this jump (BTW, I'm the guy flying the camera... Not the guy who got in a flat spin on exit).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9iRirDUY1k

Well for starters, your exit could have been better timed/framed from a cameraman's perspective. Framing of the other wingsuiter during the rest of the skydive seemed like an afterthought.

You really need to do something about the excess line you have on your control lines hanging past the toggles even if you're not sure where you're going to set them just yet. It's an accident looking for a chance to happen and there really is no good excuse/reason to leave it like that, it's plain carelessness/complacency/laziness.

Since the video doesn't show it and I didn't see you make mention of it, there are 2 courses of action that could have taken place to deal with the the jumper in a flat spin. If you were able to ascertain COA#1 happened, then you are golden. If you did not and simply went on your way, you Blue Falcon-ed your fellow skydiver.

COA #1: Keep an eye on him to see if he recovers and regains stable flight. If you see the jumper regain stable flight, continue the dive as planned and keep an eye on that jumper as long as possible during the flight to avoid any issues come pull time with the other flockers on the dive.

COA#2: If the jumper appears to be unable to regain stable flight, fly so that you can keep an eye on him until he either regains stable flight, has a reserve fire or impacts. In all 3 cases, landing off with the jumper is the right choice. This serves several purposes, the first of which is bearing witness to the entire event what ever the outcome is. The second is that even if he lands out under a good canopy after the ordeal, he might actually hurt himself on landing. Your following and landing with him could increase his chance of survival as you could render aid and or call 911 to give directions on where the injured jumper/deceased is located.


I have to side with Quade and the others on this one, team work and staying with your buddy is the right answer 99.9% of the time; never leave a fallen comrade is part of the Soldier and Ranger creed and the same ideal flows over into skydiving or any other high risk activity where others may depend on the person next to them in a tight situation. That's my opinion, you may or may not agree with it, but I think it is what a majority of responsible skydivers out there believe and would want if it were them that was the jumper in the flat spin/in trouble on any given skydive.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[faulknerwn 38]

I'm HORRIFIED that a jumper could see a fellow jumper in distress and continue on with the skydive with no concern for their friend. I'm not going to reiterate the reasons that everyone else did - obviously you couldn't pull for him but you could follow him down in case he ended up in trouble - but the fact that you saw it and blew it off just is horrifying to me.

Have jumpers really gotten so selfish that they'll let a buddy get hurt/land off and not pay attention because it will screw up their $25 skydive?

[millertime24 8]

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I'm not saying you have to be an AFF instructor, get him stable and pull for him, but you could have at least followed him down.

To what end? I think you should seriously talk with your fellow moderator (DSE) about this subject. Otherwise you're going to come off as an uninformed person blowing smoke here.

I think you should speak to somebody about being a buddy and a team player.

Mike,
not having been there, I'm gonna lean somewhat in the direction of Quade's thoughts. I can't watch the video/haven't seen it....but I wouldn't leave a buddy in distress if I see em' in a flat spin or other highly challenged situation.

You're right, unless you're an unusually good WS pilot...you're not going to be able to do anything... but I've landed off with others when I could have made it back (on numerous occasions) so that I'm sure they're safe and not alone out somewhere.

Fair enough. Could we have chased this guy down? Maybe. Though he doesn't have an AAD so if he would have fought it forever he would have gone in. Another thing to consider, what if while we were chasing him he decides to pitch his main to stop the skydive? Now we would be falling dangerously close to what will likely be a very unpredictable canopy endangering all 3 of us. What if his body impacted on I-15? Would you have me land on the shoulder?

In the end, what is done is done. I and another wingsuiter made a decision that was best for OUR safety. I think it's funny how when someone chops nobody questions it because the "YOU'RE alive so you must have made the right decision" mentality seems to apply. But when 2 adults make a choice to leave someone to sort things out because at the time it seems to be the BEST choice for their personal safety, they become uncaring assholes.

I think I'm done with this website for a while.

Muff #5048

[Squeak 17]

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Fair enough. Could we have chased this guy down? Maybe. Though he doesn't have an AAD so if he would have fought it forever he would have gone in. Another thing to consider, what if while we were chasing him he decides to pitch his main to stop the skydive? Now we would be falling dangerously close to what will likely be a very unpredictable canopy endangering all 3 of us. What if his body impacted on I-15? Would you have me land on the shoulder?

In the end, what is done is done. I and another wingsuiter made a decision that was best for OUR safety. I think it's funny how when someone chops nobody questions it because the "YOU'RE alive so you must have made the right decision" mentality seems to apply. But when 2 adults make a choice to leave someone to sort things out because at the time it seems to be the BEST choice for their personal safety, they become uncaring assholes.

I think I'm done with this website for a while.

Are you SERIOUSLY asserting that you both decided to continue on with your jumps due to SAFETY concerns you both had


Here's a tip, DONT invite citique if you dont actually WANT it.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[Conundrum 1]

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I'm not saying you have to be an AFF instructor, get him stable and pull for him, but you could have at least followed him down.

To what end? I think you should seriously talk with your fellow moderator (DSE) about this subject. Otherwise you're going to come off as an uninformed person blowing smoke here.

I think it's more or less your completely nonchalant attitude about your friends situation, rather than the fact that could or couldn't actually do anything to help him in the air.

[airtwardo 7]

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Fair enough. Could we have chased this guy down? Maybe. Though he doesn't have an AAD so if he would have fought it forever he would have gone in. Another thing to consider, what if while we were chasing him he decides to pitch his main to stop the skydive? Now we would be falling dangerously close to what will likely be a very unpredictable canopy endangering all 3 of us. What if his body impacted on I-15? Would you have me land on the shoulder?

In the end, what is done is done. I and another wingsuiter made a decision that was best for OUR safety. I think it's funny how when someone chops nobody questions it because the "YOU'RE alive so you must have made the right decision" mentality seems to apply. But when 2 adults make a choice to leave someone to sort things out because at the time it seems to be the BEST choice for their personal safety, they become uncaring assholes.

I think I'm done with this website for a while.

Are you SERIOUSLY asserting that you both decided to continue on with your jumps due to SAFETY concerns you both had


Here's a tip, DONT invite critique if you don't actually WANT it.

Well...he did invite the critique and from the tone of the invite I would guess he believed he'd had a reasonably good Skydive.

Which says to me that he didn't give the out of control guy a second thought because he didn't KNOW he should.

Isn't that kinda maybe all our fault, for not telling these newer guys that things like that are the right thing to do?

I'd be willing to bet the thought never crosses many people's minds, could be a discussion like this will be helpful to someone in the future.

And Miller I'm not letting you completely off the hook, you probably had a bad case of tunnel vision, gotta watch out for that...weird shit can happen at any time that you will have to adjust to.

You have a video in your collection of you landing off and getting a ride back in a van.
Think about that for a minute, you were off site, no one followed you down, but yet someone you don't even know was thoughtful enough to stop and give you a ride right to the hangar.

You guys should talk about that stuff before something really does go south and someone gets the shit end big time.

Don't take the junior sky-god stance of trying to defend a mistake with some wild-ass justification like being concerned for your own safety...cowboy up and just say

You're right, I probably should have done that...next time I'll consider my options more carefully'.

You seem like a reasonable guy, that's probably what you're actually thinking anyway, keep the ego in a box on stuff like this...lesson learned.

My sig line defines complacency, Miller you're being complacent regarding those toggle tails, take care of that before your next jump.
What if...you're doing your 90 to final and the left tail snags on something and you can't let that toggle up?

Nobody is too good not to listen and take advise, heck last week some guy I don't even know showed this old dog an easier way to bag my canopy...he knew more than me so I listened and learned.




...and BTW, what the hell is that guy doin' jumping a bird suit with no AAD?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[JohnRich 4]

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In the end, what is done is done. I and another wingsuiter made a decision that was best for OUR safety.

It's ironic that you now claim that your ignoring his problem was an intentional safety decision. Your first description was this:

"But after he burned a few thousand feet in it, we (me and my buddy) figured to each his own, and flew the rest of the dive plan."

A friend was out of control for several thousand feet, and you chose to ignore him with "to each his own"? And that's the first few thousand feet, before terminal velocity was reached, so that represents probably around 15 seconds or so of being out of control. And you didn't recognize that he had a serious problem? Are you not a good enough skydiver after 565 jumps that you can't fly down next to him to monitor his situation, without getting over his back to put yourself in danger in case he pulled?

You're really stretching credibility here, and your claims of "safety concerns" for yourself are a bit late.

[Squeak 17]

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Isn't that kinda maybe all our fault, for not telling these newer guys that things like that are the right thing to do?

I'd be willing to bet the thought never crosses many people's minds, could be a discussion like this will be helpful to someone in the future.

I'm sorry Jim but when did it become a requirement to tell people to look out for their mate (buddy).
That shit is with me and should be a GIVEN.

Surely it cant be a generational thing, has our society got to that point where we need to instruct people that they should look out and care for the well being of their mates?

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[JohnnyMarko 1]

Might have been asked already, but what did said jumper in the spin have to say about you just going on with the flight?

[airtwardo 7]

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Isn't that kinda maybe all our fault, for not telling these newer guys that things like that are the right thing to do?

I'd be willing to bet the thought never crosses many people's minds, could be a discussion like this will be helpful to someone in the future.

I'm sorry Jim but when did it become a requirement to tell people to look out for their mate (buddy).
That shit is with me and should be a GIVEN.

Surely it cant be a generational thing, has our society got to that point where we need to instruct people that they should look out and care for the well being of their mates?

Either way, if they don't know...maybe it's time we teach them eh?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[JohnMitchell 16]

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...and BTW, what the hell is that guy doin' jumping a bird suit with no AAD?

I don't know much about wingsuiting. I've done it nine times with some great instruction (Thanks, DSE ), but if someone's unable to get out of a spin in a fairly low performance suit, what's that guy doing jumping a bird suit, period?

Hey Mike, you're still welcome on our loads. We know you much better than just thru these forums.
Come on, hang around and let us harass you a little more.

[davelepka 4]

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what if while we were chasing him he decides to pitch his main to stop the skydive? Now we would be falling dangerously close to what will likely be a very unpredictable canopy endangering all 3 of us. What if his body impacted on I-15? Would you have me land on the shoulder?

Nobody said for you to get directly above him and stare straight down the whole time. How about you stay on level, and within 100 ft or so? That would keep you in proximity, well away from a deployment, and in a good spot to dump out and be able to land with him when he eventually pulls.

In reference to I-15, if you can't land on the shoulder, what are you doing jumping a wingsuit? If you want to take the suit way out there and fly home, you better be ready for when the 'fly home' part doesn't happen. What if you get into spin, and burn through 10k feet going straight down, what are you going to do then? What if it's right above I-15, are you going to call 'time out'?

It's one thing to make a call that's not the 'best choice' in the middle of a jump. There's pressure, target fixation, just not thinking about it the right way, all sorts of legitimate reasons you might have chosen the 'less popular' choice on that jump, and they're all 100% valid and nobody can hold that against you. Shit happens and you're learning, that's how you become a better jumper.

The real problem is when you try to defend your 'mistake' as being right after the fact. Sitting calmly at your keyboard, you have to realize that hanging the guy out to dry was the wrong move. We all know you weren't going to swoop in and 'save' him, but following him down and making sure he lands safe isn't asking a lot. If sustains an injury landing 'where ever', you would become a huge asset in terms of providing aid and making his location known to others.

Just own up to it. Big deal, there was an angle you didn't think of at the time, and you made the 'other' call. Now you know, next time you'll do it differently, and it's a win/win for everyone. If you shut down a get defensive, nobody gets anywhere.

[davelepka 4]

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I CHALLENGE you drama-zone people to point out ONE thing I did wrong on this jump.

Yeah, about that challenge, it was a dumb idea from the start because almost every jump out there has 'problems'. Nobody is perfect, and there are always ways to improve on every jump.

I'm not saying that you can't have a personal level where you feel it's 'good enough' and the jump makes you happy. The problem is that your level is going to be different than my level, which is nothing like someone else's level. So when you put the question out there for everyone, yes, you are going to get people who would look for different things in their own jumps. What made you happy isn't going to be what makes everyone else happy.

Again, don't get your panties all bunched up over this. Now you know not to proclaim 'perfection' in a room full of neurotic perfectionists. No need to get defensive, or feel bad about your jump, just learn what you can from it and move on.

[DSE 5]

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Another thing to consider, what if while we were chasing him he decides to pitch his main to stop the skydive? Now we would be falling dangerously close to what will likely be a very unpredictable canopy endangering all 3 of us.

Now I think you're grabbing at straws, Mike. You and I both know you have the skill to fly close to someone, and you could easily fly 50-100' away from someone, knowing which direction their canopy will open and fly. Even if they're spinning, they're spinning with some form of discernable forward movement.

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What if his body impacted on I-15? Would you have me land on the shoulder?

Absolutely, yes. I've never landed on I-15, but have landed next to a 4 lane highway on more than one occasion, the most recent being a tandem main that was chopped. You know I've followed people down when they've cut away, too.

I cannot rip you apart for the decision, I haven't seen the video and wasn't in your shoes at the time. Based on the info you've written, I'd suggest you could have gone about it differently. You know how much I appreciated it when you were there for me in a very difficult time; I'd submit your buddy would feel the same. You're a very caring guy, and I suspect you asked for some feedback because in your own head, I think you're sincerely asking yourself some questions. It shouldn't turn into a flame-fest either, but then again...it *is* the internet.
I'd have maybe done it differently; I also have quite a few jumps where others have had malfunctions or less than ideal circumstances, so my view is gonna be colored by those experiences.
Don't beat yourself up and don't let others beat you up. You're a good guy who always means well, no matter what the outcome.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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You're a good guy who always means well, no matter what the outcome.

Are we talkin' 'bout the same Mike here?

Just kidding. I'm "+1" with you on this one, Spot.

[cocheese 0]

What was the one thing you thought you did wrong?