kansasskydiver 0 #1 February 22, 2005 This is really a 2 part question. We've been having a lot of discussion at our DZ about the Javelin adjustable main lift web. We're a small club and each rig maybe gets 50-75 jumps on it per year. Some people have been pushing the issue of replacing the harnesses on all our rigs though others don't see them being a issue as the wear is not excessive or visable. It's gotten to the point now though that one of our local riggers is saying that he won't pack them unless we spend the money to get all the harnesses replaced and that other riggers are doing the same. Now before I call BS on that statement, I'd like to hear other riggers opinions as well as what other dzs have done with such rigs. If they continue to use them, paid to have them converted or just have never used them. I'd also like to hear from the riggers if they continue to pack them or if they refuse to pack them. Thanks for the input Chris<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #2 February 22, 2005 Ask those riggers that won't pack them if they will still pack tandem rigs with Adjustable Main Lifts webs..................... Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kansasskydiver 0 #3 February 22, 2005 Thank you, very good point. I have little room to voice my opinion on the matter because I'm not a rigger.<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #4 February 22, 2005 I think a rigger can refuse to pack whatever they want. I think that they cost themselves some business by doing that.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #5 February 22, 2005 One of the Javelin failures was on a relatively new rig that would have passed any inspection. What do you want a rigger to do? We have a known failure of unclear mechanism on a rig we would normally deem airworthy. I haven't had to decide whether I would pack one or not. But, I vigorously reserve and defend my right NOT to put my name on anything. I have the luxury of not making my living rigging. So I can chose the rigs and customers I service with fewer consequences. There are some things I won't do because I'm not current on them. There are some things I haven't been asked to do, like tandems. But I don't believe anyone has any place questioning what a rigger chooses not to do. I happily send people down the road to the rigger who isn't so picky. Some people believe this is wrong. That unless there is some demonstrable defect, either in design or condition, a rigger shouldn't impose their judgment on jumpers. For instance I won't pack a round without a diaper, i.e. military surplus. I haven't had to refuse to pack an overloaded reserve yet but I would. I put value not only on my skill but also on my judgment. If I won't do something I gladly explain why and suggest alternative riggers or the factory. What bothers me most (and many of us on the PIA rigging committee) is in the 26 years I've been jumping we just didn't break harnesses. (Ok the Greenstar Trac II, alternately know as the Death Star doesn't count) We would jump the ratiest, nastiest, most faded SST or Wonderhog and not worry. Now we've had two student harnesses break. In different ways. This frankly is pretty scary to riggers because other than pulling to destruction, which most of us aren't equipped to do anyway, our judgment on whether a harness is good just got much harder. I consider my primary job to keep the users of parachutes safe to the best of my ability. Not to keep them in the air or save them money. Those are secondary concerns, which I still deem important. One of the conclusions during discussion of these failure at the last PIA rigging committee meeting was riggers don't have enough "tools" ( examples, guidance, testing capability) to do as good of job as we'd like evaluating harnesses. And we informally asked the industry for help. Chair, PIA Rigging CommitteeI'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voodew1 0 #6 February 22, 2005 You left one off your poll Used to use them (5 of them) until some fuck stole all of them. The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #7 February 23, 2005 If I were a rigger, which I'm not, my position would be that I wouldn't pack them, because I think they're unairworthy. I'm not saying they're unairworthy. I'm saying I have an opinion, and anyone with an opinion should be encouraged to act on it in polite, ethical ways. -=- My home DZ is in the fortunate position of not having and adjustable lift webs. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #8 February 23, 2005 This month I repacked 8 Student Javelins with adjustable main lift webs. Today I have to replace a frayed MLW (Stage 3). Even though the other MLW is only frayed to Stage 1, I will replace both of them. What is the fuss? The harness is either airworthy (IAW the latest Service Bulletin) or it is not! This is not a Javelin-only problem. Last month I replaced frayed adjustable MLWs on a couple of Student Sidewinders and Jump Shack recently published more limitations of their first-generation adjustable harnesses. Any adjustable harness will fray over time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #9 February 23, 2005 Quotemy position would be that I wouldn't pack them, because I think they're unairworthy. And what reason would you give for them not being airworthy? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
