Pro Packing vs. Psycho Packing

[ladyskydiver 0]

What method of packing do you use on your BASE canopy or reserve? And why did you choose that method?

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[nicknitro71 0]

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What method of packing do you use on your BASE canopy or reserve?

It starts as a regular pro pack.

Once the canopy is on the ground every fold is "detailed".

For BASE I use a slightly modified CR method.

For reserve I use a modified Handsome Dave pack, a very neat pack by the way.

Nonetheless everything starts with a normal pro.

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And why did you choose that method?

It has been working so far

Memento Audere Semper

903

[beezyshaw 0]

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For what it's worth, I think PRO or psycho packing anything larger than a 120 is dumb. If you can't hold the entire canopy off the ground with your hand at your waist, then you are simply fighting the material. It's very-simply much faster to stack or roll pack larger canopies.

You watch who you be callin' dumb, sonny boy! You OBVIOUSLY were either too busy sleepin' in or already drankin' cuz I didn't see you at the psycho pack tandem seminar. I'll race your ass packing a tandem any day, Charles.

[councilman24 37]

For years after Pro packing became popular we weren't allowed to propack reserves. For years after one manufacurer allowed it another didn't. Not so much they didn't believe it worked but that even after it was tested they didn't think they could write instructions well enough to tell riggers how to do it.

At jumping for 12 years I'm not sure if you've ever flat packed. But I don't believe that it does have more off heading openings. I've probably got about equal number of jumps, 1000+, with both. (A few hundred were rounds.) I certainly have had many more off heading openings propacking, but I also don't believe that is because of the pack job. That's more a function of the canopy. I can't remember an off heading opening on my Strato Cloud, Cirrus Cloud, Raven or Manta. But they also opened much quicker and didn't have as much time to turn.

The only point is that a flat pack does not automatically put a 90 degree off heading orientation into the canopy.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[nicknitro71 0]

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The only point is that a flat pack does not automatically put a 90 degree off heading orientation into the canopy

That I agree.

Yes, we flat pack tandems and student rigs but not their reserves

I tell you this, I'm going off a Bridge soon. I will flat pack my BASE canopy and report the results

Memento Audere Semper

903

[councilman24 37]

I know some tandems were "flop" or "roll" packed in the beginning. And we used to pack our student rigs that way. My comments about flat packing do NOT apply to those pack jobs where the side flaked stack is folded in on itself. Don't try that at the bridge. BTW the last Tandem reserve I packed, about 1990, WAS flat packed, per the manual.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[diablopilot 2]

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Parachutes can smell fear and they will misbehave if they think you are either afraid of them or going to manhandle them.

Too true.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Thanks, Chuck. I'm going to try that, it does sound easier to manage that way.

:)
Angela.

[matthewcline 0]

Chuck,

Yeah it is just a terminalogy thing. If we packed side by side I am sure the "Stack-normal" flat pack is the same.

Your Dad was who showed me the "roll pack" as a new skydiver at Benning.

(I am sending you a 18D who is lookig for some continued training while he is TDY doing a bit of 18 series training)

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Some will call me hard-headed and old-school, but I roll (flop) pack everything that I am in a hurry to get done. I flop pack my Firebolt 350 tandem main and even "forced" them to retrofit it with packing tabs! It made Peter and the boys nuts, but hey, it's my main right?- Perfect openings every single time.

[popsjumper 2]

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Some will call me hard-headed and old-school...

Nah...I don't believe that...


You be 'da man, Mr Blue!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[azureriders 0]

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I think the 90 heading issue is froma form of flat packing called a "roll pack".

I am no expert by any means, I have only been taught one way to pack and that is a flat roll pack. The packers at my DZ claim to have made some simple changes to a standard roll pack. As I only know their way, I could not tell you what these changes are, but I have never had a 90 degree off heading opeing on one of my pack jobs.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Flat pack is ok. Why do you call it roll pack?

[BMFin 0]

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As "somewhat" of an authority on psycho packing, I can tell you that they are the same pack job, only put into the bag differently. Openings are the same, but the psycho pack when done correctly is easier for most people to master and to maintain control while getting the canopy in the d bag.

I always thought psycho packing does result in a little bit slower openings..

At least that was the case when I tried psycho. So nice and slow openings... Was I just imagining ?

[darkwing 5]

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Flat pack is ok. Why do you call it roll pack?

I'd say roll packing is a subset of flat packing. The classic flat pack doesn't involve any rolling, just stacking the line groups. Rolling is something that some people did with some canopies in an attempt to control hard openings (usually). Sometimes they just rolled the nose, sometimes the tail, and sometimes both ends to the middle.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[teason 0]

The "roll pack I remember was a tight roll of the tail and the nose until they met in the middle.

After the Sabre, Monarch and Conquest began to infiltrate our DZ, the roll pack vanished.

After that, sacrificing chickens, small goats and the ocasional virgin to the "godess of whack" became far more popular
Knew one jumper who swore by Voodoo as a packing aid!

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[azureriders 0]

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Flat pack is ok. Why do you call it roll pack?

From my understanding, someone please correct me, there are two types of flat packing. 1) stack packing, that I understand to be similiar to pro packing, just on the ground but I have never saw this nor know how to pro pack so I don't totally understand it and 2) roll packing, where the canopy is on its side and rolled from the nose and the tail untill they meet in the middle.

The way I was taught: canopy on its side, roll the nose into the center cell and then 'fold' the canopy from the nose and the tail, stacking the line sets until they meet in the middle, then placeing the tail on the nose

I don't know but one way, nor the proper terms for all the other ways so someone please fill me in. The way I was taught seems to give me good openings on the Navigator that I have been jumping and always basicaly on heading as I mentioned earlier.

[sundevil777 102]

My version of stack packing, starting with canopy flaked on its side, brakes not stowed:

Place the A line group on top of the B line group (I grab each cell at the top skin as a group to 'place' the line groups). The nose of the cells 'pointing' straight up at this point. Roll nose of outer cells in towards the center (some canopies don't need this of course). Now with one hand underneath the canopy (between canopy and ground), and one hand on top of the rolled nose, 'flip' it over so that the nose is now 'pointed' straight down towards the ground. Then put the C and D line groups on top of the A & B groups. Separate the stabilizers, and then set the brakes (I find the D line group stacking is much neater if the brakes are not set first, but it can be done that way).

The flaking of the tail is harder to describe, and can be done many different ways, so I'll avoid describing it. In the end I wrap a bit of the tail fabric around to cocoon it much like a pro pack looks. Everything else is just like a pro pack.

I think the key thing is that you don't just roll everything in towards the center, and the nose is still exposed towards the front on opening, and the line groups are placed on top of each other.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[azureriders 0]

very similiar to the way I was taught. I flake the tail before putting the D's on the C's. When I am pulling packing tabs I trace each seem all the way to the tail, that way when the canopy is straight and read to fold, the tail is already flaked, you just have to keep it that way. As you suggested, it is neccessary to leave the breaks unstowed for the tail to be flaked this way.

[littlejohn 0]

pro-packing is the easiest of all. in the end all packjobs are pretty much the same . so i would just master the propack then move to different ways.
peace

death before dishonor

[phoenixlpr 0]

Learn! Packing is a religion.

You have to believe in your packing and you have to practice it.

Oh, and you have to teach/spread it.

[leapdog 0]

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First, flat packing DOES NOT make a canopy open 90 degrees off heading. When finished a flat pack is a pro pack that has all the material going from side to side in s folds between line groups versus half of the fabric going to each side.

Agreed. It's just more time consuming.

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Second, Psycho packing is really more Psycho bagging. The part up until you lay it on the floor is the SAME.

Also agreed. I use this method on free fall rigs because of material managment when trying to bag the canopy.

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Third, Psycho packing actually requires pulling the bridle attachment point out to the side. This might be the most disruption to the order of the pack job of any. BUT, it has not been shown to affect opening. It also requires turning the canopy 180 degrees and then turning it back the opposite way. I doubt that psycho packing is easier to understand in reality.

Agreed again, it has a few extra steps that if you are new to packing maybe should stay away from until you learna pro pack.

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So, if your having trouble bagging the canopy, you might want to try psycho packing, IF there is someone handy to help you learn. But, your best bet at this point is to stay with one teacher and one method. Everyone does all of these pack jobs just a little different. If you just grab whoever's handy at the DZ to show you you'll see as many different variations (minor) as people. This can be confusing when your learning.

Yes, learn one way and stay with that.

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker