rasmack 0 #1 February 2, 2005 I have begun contemplating what to buy for my first rig, and I could use some advice on choice of main canopy. I have of course had a short chat with an instructor, and I plan to contact him again, but I also plan to be prepared to ask the right questions. I get a lot of "Oh well, for a 9 cell canopy it is quite stable" and the likes thereof. These don't mean much to me, as I have no idea what the general characteristics of different canopies should be. My priorities are to get safely to the ground every time and having fun on the way in that order! I get terrified by seeing what happens to moderately experienced people when they get "lured into danger" by a canopy that was just a little too "fun" to land. I am therefore looking for a canopy that will not tempt me to do stupid stuff. As a student I have flown, Falcon, Manta and Navigator. The most widely used container has been a Javelin. I have never seen the reserves out I have been pointed to a used rig containing a Triathlon 210. I weigh ~220 lbs. Would this be a good choice? Reviews here on dropzone.com would seem to suggest so, but I am simply too inexperienced to know how to read these reviews. I don't know if "stable" means "boring", or if "fast" means "bloody dangerous". Hope I can get some opinions on the table here.HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #2 February 2, 2005 Your first, and ONLY reliable port of call has to be your instructors. This snippet from a gear FAQ ought to help you narrow down your questions to them, but rely on their advice over any you get elsewhere. Quote Are there different shaped canopies? Yes. The canopies you learned on were rectangular (referred to as square). These are great all-round canopies and for a long time were the only design available. Some canopies are tapered or lightly/semi-elliptical. These are a new breed of canopy designed to meet the needs of intermediate jumpers and tend to be more responsive to their pilot’s control input. Some canopies are fully elliptical. These are very high performance canopies that are aimed at only the most experienced jumpers who do hundreds of jumps a year. You may also hear about design features such as “cross-bracing” or “air locked” canopies. These are new variants of the elliptical canopies and again, are aimed at only the most experienced or professional jumper. These are the Formula 1 cars of the canopy world and would be lethal in the hands of an inexperienced jumper. What's a safe design for me? For your first canopy you should primarily be looking for a square canopy. You may also be fine on a semi-elliptical/tapered canopy but should seek an instructor’s advice about any canopy you consider before test jumping it. You should not consider ANY elliptical canopy, regardless of its size. Without hundreds of jumps experience on square canopies an elliptical canopy can easily kill. You will probably find that the DZ would not let you jump such a canopy in any case. A triathlon is a square canopy that is one of those specifically aimed towards newer jumpers (amongst others). It is unlikely that your instructor would have any issues with you jumping an appropriately sized triathlon. You should check with them with regard to what size they recomend you look at - that goes for any canopy design. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #3 February 2, 2005 Quote Your first, and ONLY reliable port of call has to be your instructors. No disagreement from here. It would just be nice to be as prepared as possible, when I talk to them. I do not like the feeling of not having been able to ask the right questions. Personal experiences would be nice ("I thought the Sabre was OK because...") EDIT: Thanks for the snippet and the Triathlon comment.HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckbrown 0 #4 February 2, 2005 Definitely get your instructor's advice, but Triathlons are great canopies all the way around. It's a canopy that you can learn on & also grow into. Canopies don't kill pilots, pilots kill themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 42 #5 February 2, 2005 Some very good articles to read can be found here: http://www.dropzone.com/safety/Gear_and_Equipment/index.shtml"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #6 February 2, 2005 Yup. Read them But still, I'd like some more input, before committing the cash.HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #7 February 2, 2005 hehe, what you're primarily seeing is a reluctance to give bad advice. No one want's to go out on a limb and categorically say X Y and Z are good canopies for you as no one here as seen you fly or knows your progression. Whilst there are general comments we can make, specific recommendations have to come from your instructor. The only input I'm willing to give at my terribly low experience level is to say, stay away from ellipticals, learn about wing loading and stay away from anything loaded above 1.1:1 unless your instructor specifically tells you otherwise (and only then if you yourself are comfortable with it). While you may find someone here who is willing to list a number of canopies commonly jumped by A license holders, it is unlikely that anyone here is going to be able to give you specific advice as to which of those canopies is best for you. Sorry – that’s just the nature of the sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #8 February 2, 2005 OK But a list of canopies to run by my instructor perhaps? So far I plan to ask about Triathlon and Sabre(2). Any other canopies I should ask about? Spectre? Stilletto? EDIT: As for the hesitance, I appreciate cautiousness. Epsecially in this sport. HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #9 February 2, 2005 While I’m sure I could produce a list few would argue with, I’m simply not the person to be giving such advice. I’ll defer to others on the board with more exp. Give your thread a day or so - I'm sure you'll get the help you’re looking for from those who are in the business of giving it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #10 February 2, 2005 Some appropriate canopies: 7cells: Spectre, Triathlon, Synergy, Omega 9cells: Sabre, Sabre2, Pilot, Safire, Safire2, Merit, Electra, Hornet, Silhouette, ZP Exe ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #11 February 2, 2005 QuoteZP Exe Isnt the ZP trimed very steep?Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #12 February 2, 2005 I have no idea. A couple of jumpers jump them at my DZ but I only jumped a 220 (I think) once, for a fun SL jump because my rig wasn't packed yet, but the WL was next to nothing. OK I have strange ideas of fun sometimes LOL. But what if it is trimmed steeply? A Sabre is, and my Spectre is... ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #13 February 2, 2005 QuoteIsnt the ZP trimed very steep? I jump one. My previous canopy was a Sabre. I find them to be very comprable. The ZP perhaps has a very slight performance edge on the Sabre in my opinion but it's minimal to say the least. People often talk of them in the same breath. I would suggest that the ZP is marginally less 'radical' than canopies such as the Sabre II/Pilot/SafireII which are generally considered appropriate for A license's... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #14 February 2, 2005 Well, a good buddy of mine had a ZP way back when, and it fell out of the sky much faster then a similar sabre. Not sure if would be great for a 1st canopy...Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #15 February 2, 2005 IMHO if you weigh 220 and the Tri is 210, you may encounter some brisk openings. Since you are in Denmark, you may try contacting some folks at Skydive Skane in Sweden. I happen to know for a fact that there is some good quality used gear coming up for sale right now. A Spectre 230 or 210 would offer up some of the charactorisitics you are looking for. There are plenty of other choices, so if you have any specific questions regarding any used choices you may be considering, feel free to PM me. I am a Gear Dealer and an AFF Instructor. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #16 February 2, 2005 QuoteYour first, and ONLY reliable port of call has to be your instructors. Why do you consider this to be true? Just out of curiosity.... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phillbo 11 #17 February 2, 2005 Ask around about the Silhouette. I'm close to your weight and am flying a 190. So far I'm very conservative with it while learning to fly it safely but I also feel once I gain more experience I can get more aggressive and not need change canopies for a few hundered jumps. I like the Silhouette. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #18 February 2, 2005 It may well not be the case... but it’s the only advice I'm willing to stand by in writing. For example a dealer might be an excellent source of advice... but dealers don't have to have any instructional qualifications or even experience in the sport… so not every dealer will be somewhere I’d send a student for advice. Equally an experienced jumper may know tons about canopies flight... but they may not have any instructional qualifications or knowledge of canopies suitable for A license jumpers… thus again not every experienced jumper is the best source. The only place I'm comfortable describing as a "reliable" source, (without knowing exactly who they’re talking to) is their AFF instructor or whatever progressional instructor they've been designated. While others may also be perfectly able (if not sometimes better able) to provide such advice... I'm not able to guarantee that from my office in the south west of rainy old England... I can (at least I hope) be fairly certain of an instructor however. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #19 February 2, 2005 We even have one as a student canopy. Like I said, dunno if they really come down fast, never heard any other complaints about them, maybe the one your buddy had was just worn out? ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #20 February 2, 2005 I'm going to have to disagree with most of what you are saying here. As both an AFF Instructor and a Gear Dealer, I can only offer you personal experience. Before I got into the gear business, I was an AFF Jumpmaster. At that point my knowledge of gear was limited to what I was interested in for MYSELF, and to canopies such as Navigators and Mantas (Student Gear). I could tell a student if I thought they were ready to downsize or not based on their performance, but that was about it. Many times instructors have no desire to be a "gear consultant". It's easy to forget what it's like to be new in the sport. Gear is constantly changing and improving. I think most qualified dealers make it their business to keep up with those changes. So in short my opinion, not that anyone asked for it, would be: Check with your instructors to get a sense of where your skill level is at. Are you ready to downsize? Do you need more practice on a Student canopy? Etc. Then contact a proper gear consultant to go through the technical questions related specifically to gear. Of course my opinion is most likely biased! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #21 February 2, 2005 QuoteAs a student I have flown, Falcon, Manta and Navigator. The most widely used container has been a Javelin. I have never seen the reserves out I have been pointed to a used rig containing a Triathlon 210. I weigh ~220 lbs. Would this be a good choice? 220 exit weight, or just you? What size Falcon have you used? And most importantly, can you demo that used rig? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #22 February 2, 2005 If you get a triathalon, consider getting the modifications that Aerodyne offers. If you search for 'triathalon mod' you will learn more.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #23 February 3, 2005 I love my silhouette. Would buy another one in a second, if I had the cash. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
syntax 0 #24 February 3, 2005 I weigh approx 100 kgs with gear and happily jump an Electra 190 (PDF) It has a nice big flare and i know its forgiving!------------------------------------skydiving...the grounds the limit! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #25 February 3, 2005 Quote220 exit weight, or just you? What size Falcon have you used? And most importantly, can you demo that used rig? The weight is just me. As for the canopies, they usually put me in a Falcon 300 or a Manta 280ish. My instructors have suggested I look for something at about 210 sq.ft. One of them said 190, but I prefer to be conservative on this exact point As for demo jumps I am not allowed to jump anything with BOC as long as I am a student. It has to be spring loaded pilot chute. I will thus have to wait 15 jumps to demo anything, as 40 jumps is the license requirement in Denmark. In Danish weather that can take anywhere between two weeks and three months.HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
