Skyper 0 #1 November 22, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tF6iXI70-Y Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #2 November 22, 2011 WTF? That guy had a perfectly good roof to land on, and he picked the backyard? Loser.... Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #3 November 22, 2011 I think its ironic he had more line twists on his reserve than he did on the main."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #4 November 22, 2011 Quote I think its ironic he had more line twists on his reserve than he did on the main. Reminds me of a story I heard of some crusty old-timer looking up, watching a guy chop his main, then have a reserve mal that was worse than the main: "I reckon about now, he's a'wishin' he had his main back.""There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #5 November 22, 2011 I know it's old-fashioned and probably antiquated thinking, but I like my reserve to have a little more of a vertical component in it's descent ...just in case I have to land in the weeds or in someone's yard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VTmotoMike08 0 #6 November 23, 2011 Holy shit. Almost looks like he had about a two second bag lock on the reserve around 0:33. I've had 4 reserve rides and not a single one took that long to deploy, including two tandem reserve rides. It looked like it hesitated to clear the bag, which caused it to "dance" once it was at line stretch, which created most of the line twists. Either way, his reserve PC was in the frame for over two seconds- something is not right there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SRI85 0 #7 November 23, 2011 QuoteI think its ironic he had more line twists on his reserve than he did on the main. Id take a diving reserve over a diving Velo any day. Nice job on the toggle input with the reserve though. So if a canopy is spinning left, pulling on the right toggle is the best option? and same goes for a canopy spinning right, best option would be to give it left toggle input?.......that is the lesson i learned from this.....correct me if im wrong please. Though this video kinda makes me appreciate the fact that i dont use an RSL, a clean break away gives you a better chance to be stable while deploying your reserve( i realize this does not apply to every jumper).....i guess i have seen to many youtubes videos of RSL or skyhooks opening with line twists. I had a lucky opportunity to remind me while pulling at an appropriate altitude is important. especially when you do not use an rsl.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7MoXNkToxA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #8 November 23, 2011 QuoteHoly shit. Almost looks like he had about a two second bag lock on the reserve around 0:33. I've had 4 reserve rides and not a single one took that long to deploy, including two tandem reserve rides. It looked like it hesitated to clear the bag, which caused it to "dance" once it was at line stretch, which created most of the line twists. Either way, his reserve PC was in the frame for over two seconds- something is not right there. So much of the reserve fabric was visible, perhaps one of the locking stows had hung up, with the canopy mostly out? It was a skyhook rig, but didn't seem to have the main hooked on the bridle. That video is worth a very close look to figure out what happened.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #9 November 23, 2011 This is worth Gear & Rigging not just Bonfire, because of the implications! [I have now made a new thread there, linking to this thread.] The video may have been up from the end of August, but it's new to me. I don't subscribe to Blue Skies mag, but on their web page about the incident (linked from the YouTube page), they say "This incident has promoted some discussion about the use of a SkyHook with high performance main canopies such as the Velocity." The reserve didn't extract from the freebag cleanly -- it was a reserve / freebag / reserve bridle entanglement of some sort, it looks like. By the time we see the reserve, the main canopy & RSL to the Skyhook have already departed. Morton Pedersen, the jumper, writes on the web page, "what happen was the wild main threw my reserve freebag around like a ragdoll, flipping the bridel around the lines, when full line extraction the red shyhook lanyard broke. " A good analysis could use more than just the 360p FLV video available off youtube. The main canopy actually looked to me well behaved during the mal -- it was doing a diving spiral, but was not pinwheeling overhead or any such thing. If someone is in a hard spiral, on breakaway the freebag will tend to be pulled roughly upwards along the body axis, past the shoulders and head. Usually that must be 'back and away' from the jumper enough to clear cleanly. But jumpers are often 'sitting' in the harness, dearched, during a spinning mal and may breakaway in that dearched position. In this video the jumper was somewhat butt to the earth, feet up towards the horizon as seen on video, shortly after breakaway -- probably when the reserve was still effectively acting like a bag lock above. The actual body position and motion during the cutaway isn't apparent to me. If a jumper is more butt to wind than belly to wind, the main & RSL & Skyhook is more likely to be dragging the freebag over the shoulders and slightly forward on the jumper -- not clearing the flaps and jumper nicely, and so possibly causing the bag to get knocked and spin around. Normally the reserve pilot chute would be clear of the freebag, as the PC is connected by a shorter piece of bridle than the freebag, relative to the Skyhook where the tension is being applied. Whatever happened, that didn't seem to keep the parts from somehow entangling in this case. Better analysis is needed. This incident also showed an example of a reserve going into a spiralling dive with line twists, which generally doesn't happen. This is probably mainly due to the large asymmetry between the risers, as seen for short moments in the video. It also seems to show the success of popping the brakes to stop a spiral dive with line twists, pulling the brake lines through the line twists. Although I haven't counted exactly, it looks like he only had 1 to 1 1/2 full (360 degree) twists at that time, which may have helped the success of that tactic. Any thoughts on what exactly the video is showing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #10 November 23, 2011 Camera + Skyhook ?? I thought RSL's of any kind are a no-no with cameras or most other specialties.... scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
format 1 #11 November 23, 2011 Quote Any thoughts on what exactly the video is showing? Here's one: This jumper shows lack of education and friends with lack of same. What's that? A Velo 103 and Optimum 126? Oh, he's got thousands of jumps? It's O.K. then What goes around, comes later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #12 November 23, 2011 Quote What's that? A Velo 103 and Optimum 126? Oh, he's got thousands of jumps? It's O.K. then and what exactly is your problem with that ?scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SRI85 0 #13 November 23, 2011 Quote Quote What's that? A Velo 103 and Optimum 126? Oh, he's got thousands of jumps? It's O.K. then and what exactly is your problem with that ? Dude you make an average of 21 jumps a year. who are you to questiion? he obviously knows his shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 578 #14 November 23, 2011 Quote Quote What's that? A Velo 103 and Optimum 126? Oh, he's got thousands of jumps? It's O.K. then and what exactly is your problem with that ? This is a question, before I get jumped on for having an opinion! Is a highly loaded main and reserve with a skyhook really appropriate for filming tandems? Piisfish already mentioned the skyhook/camera. Mals on HP mains are more violent and fast. Secondly that filming tandems you are more likely to have a lousy spot. While I disagree with the way the person phrased this question, it is still a valid question. There is honest debate going on in the Lake Wales thread, about choice of canopy. Is this a similar scenario?Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
format 1 #15 November 23, 2011 Quote Quote What's that? A Velo 103 and Optimum 126? Oh, he's got thousands of jumps? It's O.K. then and what exactly is your problem with that ? It's not a problem at all. It's a written thought on subject, as asked for. More precise, I find it ridiculous for a pro camera man to avoid death by pure chance. Yet, his canopy choice suggests high experience. Where is that? I don't have a problem with that but can't resist pointing on "expert skydiver and his skills on survival". He almost ruined my sig-lineWhat goes around, comes later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 578 #16 November 23, 2011 Quote Quote Quote What's that? A Velo 103 and Optimum 126? Oh, he's got thousands of jumps? It's O.K. then and what exactly is your problem with that ? It's not a problem at all. It's a written thought on subject, as asked for. More precise, I find it ridiculous for a pro camera man to avoid death by pure chance. Yet, his canopy choice suggests high experience. Where is that? I don't have a problem with that but can't resist pointing on "expert skydiver and his skills on survival". He almost ruined my sig-line What specifically did he do wrong? It seems to me that whenever we cutaway a mal, we all are at risk of having a crappy reserve. Regardless of experience. Your post implies there is something that he should have done differently on this jump.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #17 November 23, 2011 Quote Quote Quote What's that? A Velo 103 and Optimum 126? Oh, he's got thousands of jumps? It's O.K. then and what exactly is your problem with that ? It's not a problem at all. It's a written thought on subject, as asked for. More precise, I find it ridiculous for a pro camera man to avoid death by pure chance. Yet, his canopy choice suggests high experience. Where is that? I don't have a problem with that but can't resist pointing on "expert skydiver and his skills on survival". He almost ruined my sig-line so ? what could he have done better ?scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SRI85 0 #18 November 23, 2011 well that sig line is adapted from a pilot quote....good line though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
format 1 #19 November 23, 2011 This technique makes it unnecessary. It was high deploy I'd say.What goes around, comes later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #20 November 23, 2011 Quote This technique makes it unnecessary. It was high deploy I'd say.?? what do you mean by that ?scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #21 November 23, 2011 QuoteMore precise, I find it ridiculous for a pro camera man to avoid death by pure chance. Yet, his canopy choice suggests high experience. Where is that? I don't have a problem with that but can't resist pointing on "expert skydiver and his skills on survival". He almost ruined my sig-linerespecting your hard deck is not pure luck. Can I land it ? No ... CHop Would I be proud and happy to get out of linetwists on my main far below my hard deck ? No... Chop In my opinion what he did wrong was having a skyhook with a camera. Initial deployment seems to be at a decent altitude, EP's too.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danornan 79 #22 November 23, 2011 QuoteQuote Though this video kinda makes me appreciate the fact that i dont use an RSL, a clean break away gives you a better chance to be stable while deploying your reserve( i realize this does not apply to every jumper).....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7MoXNkToxA If you are a regular skydiver, this thought process is not going with the odds. Having an RSL is many times safer than not having one. You are using an exception for your rule! Same as watching TV and thinking that it is real life. Maybe 1%.Dano Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #23 November 23, 2011 QuoteIn my opinion what he did wrong was having a skyhook with a camera. Initial deployment seems to be at a decent altitude, EP's too. I think Bill Booth has said that a spinning disconnect with a skyhook and camera is a non issue.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 578 #24 November 23, 2011 Quote Quote In my opinion what he did wrong was having a skyhook with a camera. Initial deployment seems to be at a decent altitude, EP's too. I think Bill Booth has said that a spinning disconnect with a skyhook and camera is a non issue. Squeak. Isn't the whole point of not having an RSL/skyhook with a camera, due to the higher risk of main entanglement with the camera setup? I don't believe the spinning is the problem. Maybe the skyhook could be enhanced to cutaway the camera helmet at the same timeExperienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #25 November 23, 2011 QuoteThe video may have been up from the end of August, but it's new to me. I don't subscribe to Blue Skies mag, but on their web page about the incident (linked from the YouTube page), they say "This incident has promoted some discussion about the use of a SkyHook with high performance main canopies such as the Velocity." I commented on the post from BSM about this, that _really_ doesn't look like a skyhook activation. He goes from being in a sitting position, back to belly, THEN his reserve comes out. Just because the rig is skyhook equipped, doesn't mean it will always activate the reserve."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
