Mirage profiting on their mistake?

[freeflyzoro 0]

Let me get this strait. I have to send in my container, pay them for the repack and repair. The repack is $45, and I'm guessing $15 for the repair?

I'd like to know that what they pay their rigger per pack job, I'm sure not the $45, they probably have someone on salary or hourly (around the $30k range, I'd guess), and $45 dollars an hour is $90 grand a year!!!

They are going to turn a huge profit on this whole goof up. I can understand, not doing enough testing, because it is too expensive, but look for other ways to profit, for gods sake.

I at least think the sewing should be free. If they have a rigger on staff, or riggers, they should eat the cost of the pack job, or at least discount it to the point of covering their riggers salary.

I know that the price of a repack is not fixed around the country, but I had a repack done in Deland last year for $35. And that was just a local guy, who I heard was really good, Terry something, he owns a business there.

I read through the choices to get my rig fixed, and the other posts about it but I was wondering if anyone else felt the same way I do. One of the reasons I bought the most expensive rig on the market, is because I expected the profit went into research and that sort of thing. I should have bought a Wings, cheaper but better customer service.

[BETO74 0]

I'm with you.........that's why my next container is gonna be a vector micron.

Yes... I probably take my rig to mirage, yes i will pay to get the modification done but I'm sure they are loosing more than the profits they think they are making.

2nd question.... If the decision of having a AAD is up to the skydiver, how mirage can make mandatory a modification to something that seemed to work fine most of the time??? what hapens if down the road they find out that the previous location of the cutting pin was the best choice???

I have spoke with some riggers that have their opinions about it probably more educated than mine, I would like to hear from them.

http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html

[tdog 0]

EDIT: Since this is freeflyzoro's first post, I decided not to be part of this argument. First post deleted.

I don't have a Mirage, but (almost all) my friends do. I thank them for making my friends rigs safer because I want to jump with my friends for a long time... Thanks Mirage.

[Tonto 1]

So lets get this straight.

You registered on this site today.

You've made one post.

You have no name, no DZ, no jumps.

And you think Mirage released a SB that would certainly upset/disapoint their clients to turn a profit?

I wonder how much you spend on this sport in a year, and whether $60 really makes a difference.
I jump a G4 that needs the mod. I have a G3 which is currently under construction. I'll stay with Mirage because if there's an issue - I get to hear about it.

Skydiving is a democracy. By all means, vote with your dollars. Understand though, that it's a small industry, and all manufacturers make mistakes.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Chrissay 0]

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I'll stay with Mirage because if there's an issue - I get to hear about it.

Excellent point Tonto. I have a G4 as well and will need this modification done, I have been completely happy with my rig and my next rig will be a Mirage. They recognized an issue with their rig and are actively notifying their customers.

[TALONSKY 0]

I bought an Infinity container and Kelly at that time got a batch of balistic material that eventually went soft. I noticed my secondary riser covers went soft and e-mailed Kelly on it. Not only did Infinity fix the problem for free and shipped it back for free he also included a new reserve repack for free(which my rig needed). Infinity Rocks
Kirk

[mjosparky 4]

Real Name: No name entered.
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Noise in the dark.

Pay attention, you get the rig to them, they do the mod for free.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[davelepka 4]

I'm not a Mirage fan, but if you check thier website, thier usual charge for a repack is $75. I guess the overhead of a building and full time rigger drives thier price up from your local rigger, but it does seem that they are offering a discount in light of the SB.

[AggieDave 6]

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I guess the overhead of a building and full time rigger drives thier price up from your local rigger

I had always thought that rig manufactures prefered not to do repacks and would prefer that your rigger did it, so they charged more. As well as the cost of actually running a business.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[davelepka 4]

Maybe they've got a government supplied molar strap that costs $3000. That would do it too.

[Thanatos340 1]

What Mistake?? What Repair??

Do you mean the modification of the Existing design that should make YOUR rig safer than it was before??

What baffles me is all the people saying that this is something that Mirage should pay for. It is Your Rig, You bought the existing design, now they have found an previously unknown potential problem and have released a way for YOU to make YOUR rig safer.

The old method worked for years and Mirage was not the only one to use this method as it was accepted by Airtec, Mirage and other Rig Manufacturers as the best way to do it based on the information available at that time.

They did not make a MISTAKE in the original design, the original design was based off their existing knowledge and worked in almost all scenarios, Now they have new knowledge of a previously unknown potential problem and they have decided to take action.

The old Design was not 100% reliable. The new Design is not guaranteed to be 100% reliable either but should hopefully be a little better than the previous one. Nothing is 100% reliable in this sport. The only guarantee that you will ever have in Skydiving is that if jump out of a Plane, You will land.

I don’t jump a Mirage so this does not effect me, But I know for Certain that if the manufacturer of my rig finds a safer and/or more reliable way to do something on my rig.. I can only hope they will let me know. I will be glad to pay for the improvement.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Do you mean the modification of the Existing design that should make YOUR rig safer than it was before??

What baffles me is all the people saying that this is something that Mirage should pay for. It is Your Rig, You bought the existing design, now they have found an previously unknown potential problem and have released a way for YOU to make YOUR rig safer.

So if you had just bought a brand new car and the transmission fell out because they used the wrong bolts on those models cars, would you expect the manufacturer to fix it for free or would you have your brand new car towed back to the dealership and pay for them to fix it?

This isn't like RWS releasing the Vstor II and all the Vector II owners standing in line to get their II's upgraded to III's. new model, new features, you want it, buy it. That is comletely different.

I don't think Mirage is profiting at all from the SB.

Derek

[Thanatos340 1]

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they used the wrong bolts on those models cars

If they used the WRONG Bolts, Then it is a Manufacturers Defect and should be covered. In Mirages case, there is no Manufacturing Defect. They simply found a better way to address a previously unknown potential problem.

Mirage didn’t use the "Wrong Bolts" here. They used a system that was accepted by everyone involved as the best way to install the Cypress based on the knowledge that they had at that time. This method worked for years. They have now found an even better way. It is an Improvement as it reduces (nothing eliminates) the possibility that the Reserve Pilot chute could remain in the container on a Cypress fire.

There is still no Guarantee that the new method is 100% reliable but is should be better than the old method.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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They simply found a better way to address a previously unknown potential problem.

Isn't that a defect? Isn't the PC failing to launch a defect? Isn't realizing that you used the wrong bolts and replacing them with the right bolts a way to address a previously unknown potential problem?

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Mirage didn’t use the "Wrong Bolts" here.

If it works, as is, then why is the SB mandatory? If it was just an optional improvement to something that already works, then it should be optional.

Derek

[rushmc 23]

First of all, this thread is started on the premise that Mirage made a mistake. Well, I read the information from Mirage as saying that a "common" rigging error causes the problem and the required change mitigates the created issue. So take that for what it is worth....
Secondly, Vector has nearly the same configuration.....will we see the same thing from them?

(by the way, I jump a Mirage, mine needs the change and I am a rigger and I like packing the Mirage....)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Thanatos340 1]

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Isn't the PC failing to launch a defect?

We are talking about the possibility that the PC may not launch on a Cypress Fire. I have only seen ONE report of that happening. I agree that Once is too many (And so does Mirage Obviously or else they would not have released the SB). Nothing changes the fact that the old system worked for years and was the best known method of placing the cutter at the time. Once again I will mention that this was agreed on by Airtec, Mirage and Other Rig Manufacturers therefore it was not a Design FLAW, It was the best design based on the information available at that time.

This is not about a Manufacturing Defect, This is about improving the reliability of YOUR Rig.

The last thing I want to see is Manufacturers penalized for developing safer ways of doing anything. If they have to make Improvements Retroactive, You can bet that they will not be so anxious to release these improvements.

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If it was just an optional improvement to something that already works, then it should be optional.

I do agree with you here that it should be optional.

Skydiving is all about Calculated Risk and Risk Management in my opinion. The new Cuter position reduces the chance that the PC will not launch on a Cypress Fire. I see that as an Improvement. There is still no guarantee that (a) the Cypress will fire at all, (b) that if it does, the PC will launch, (c) that if the PC does Launch, The reserve will open. All we can do is to do everything we possibly can to make sure that we reduce the possibility of any failure based on the information available to us at the time.

I respect your opinion and hope you do not mind a low time jumper like me expressing a different point of view.

[GravityGirl 0]

Derik,

Did you read the SB and the response from Airtec?

This is a response to possible rigging errors in the field.

Mirage is not the only rig that this type of error can effect. They are just the first to issue a service bulletin.

Just like they were the first in the Capewell fiasco.

They should be applauded. It appears to me that they care more about keeping their customers safe than their reputation.

I am impressed with Mirages bold move/s in their ongoing march towards excellence!

This potential failure can happen with MOST enclosed pop top rigs. Now sit back and watch as others follow Mirages lead.

And to the person who posted this thread. How much does a reserve pack where you are from? Here in Cali it's $60.00. The SB compliance is due on your next pack job. So unless you were planning on pencil packing, you are not out any money.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[pajarito 0]

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I wonder how much you spend on this sport in a year, and whether $60 really makes a difference.
I jump a G4 that needs the mod. I have a G3 which is currently under construction. I'll stay with Mirage because if there's an issue - I get to hear about it.

Skydiving is a democracy. By all means, vote with your dollars. Understand though, that it's a small industry, and all manufacturers make mistakes.

Pisses me off! I just bought a brand new Mirage G-4 last summer at the WFFC. However, I still don't even have any parachutes in it yet. Barely out of the bag. It's got the wrong configuration and I'm going to have to pay more to get what I just bought right? That's assed up IMO.

[John4455 0]

I don't jump a Mirage but,
"This Service Bulletin may only be performed by FAA Master Riggers or foreign equivalent. PSB 12-04 must be complied with for affected containers either at the next repack or 120 days since the last repack.

Mirage Systems is currently has an offer where if you send the container, reserve and AAD to them at reserve repack time they will do the mod, the repack and pay return shipping to you for $60."

Doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.

My rigger,

http://www.riggingsolutions.us/

does it for free if he pack your reserve.

How do ya like it Johnny?

[jlmiracle 7]

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I just bought a brand new Mirage G-4 last summer at the WFFC. However, I still don't even have any parachutes in it yet. Barely out of the bag.

If its not packed - it should be a cheap easy fix.

The problem is today's sue happy society. If Mirage doesn't make it mandatory then if something happens - even if its a rigging error - they will get sued. In a thread from a year or so ago several people from dz.com said they would sue the manufacturer if the manufacturer new there could possibly be a problem.

Get people to stop suing and take responsiblity for themselves and their actions and we probably won't have these mandatory service bulletins.

Just my 2 cents

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[PhreeZone 20]

>Just like they were the first in the Capewell fiasco.

There is a long story there. Its not that clear cut as to why they were first out.


Repacks here are $40. Shipping with insurance on the rig, reserve and Cypres to FL is about $25 for ground. Total for someone to have this done from Ohio is going to be about $85.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Did you read the SB and the response from Airtec?

Yes.

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Mirage is not the only rig that this type of error can effect. They are just the first to issue a service bulletin.

I agree.

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They should be applauded. It appears to me that they care more about keeping their customers safe than their reputation.

I agree. But I don't think I should have to pay to get the rig fixed. They are willing to do it for free and pay return shipping. Why not;

1) Pay the riggers in the field to do the SB, so that everyone saves money and downtime?

2) Make the SB optional?

3) Make the 'qualified personnel" Senior or Master Riggers, further saving money and down time?

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So unless you were planning on pencil packing, you are not out any money.

Shipping and down time. How much money would a DZ that uses Mirage student rigs or a full time instructor lose because of the SB?

I said it before and I'll say it again, I don't think Mirage should have issued a mandatory SB.

1) It really isn't mandatory unless it is an AD issued by the FAA

2) It is only necessary if the rigger is sloppy.

3) It negatively affects the cosmetics of the rig.

I'm not paying to ship a Mirage back. In fact, I am not modding Kelli's rig unless she wants me to (under the supervision of a Master Rigger)

I like Mirages. I think they are the best rig on the market, maybe tied w/ the Micron w/ a Skyhook. But I don't like having to pay for a SB/Recall/AD, whatever.

Again, why wouldn't Mirage just pay rigger to do the SB? It saves everyone down time and money.

Derek

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Repacks here are $40. Shipping with insurance on the rig, reserve and Cypres to FL is about $25 for ground. Total for someone to have this done from Ohio is going to be about $85.

Using thise numbers and $20 from Mirage to the rigger to do the SB, It would cost Mirage $20 and the owner a normal $40 (nothing extra) to have the SB done. If the owner sends it in and has Mirage do the AB and re-pack, it costs the owner $85 and Mirage $25 + re-pack and SB costs. If they send it in and it costs $15 just for the container shipping, Mirage is out whatever it costs them to do the SB and $15 in return shipping. The owner is out the $15 + a re-pack + the downtime.

Derek

[skymedic 0]

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Secondly, Vector has nearly the same configuration.....will we see the same thing from them?

RWS said something along the lines they are making the change to future vectors but are not going to issue a statement to change past ones.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[Spizzzarko 0]

Dude,

Just beacuse you paid a grip of money, doesn't mean you bought the best product on the market. I have always thought Mirage was way overpriced for the product they offer. I feel with mirage you are paying for a name, and really that's all you are doing in the first place with any rig out there. Essentially all the rigs nowadays are the same, there are just a few design changes, but for the most part they all work the same.