Hooknswoop 19
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QuoteThe SB affects the specified series of rigs whether the rig is used correctly or not - and is mandatory.
It is manditory only under a specific condition.
It is also being done for free by the manufacturer.
Why is anyone still on about this?
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
sundevil777 102
QuoteIt is also being done for free by the manufacturer.
Well said.
Didn't Precision still charge for the fix, even after returning it to them?
If true, then that's all the difference in the world.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am
BIGUN 1,457
QuoteWell said.
Didn't Precision still charge for the fix, even after returning it to them?
This is exactly the point. Perhaps you and Diablopilot should take it from the top. It's really not about money, it's about the current trend of issuing an SB and expecting the customer to pay for it.
It's about not taking responsibility for your design. If the consumer gives the manufacturers' permission to pay for it's own design flaws, then who holds them accountable for their quality processes. If they had to take financial responsibility for each SB issued, their quality control process would improve, their costs would go down, much happier customer base = greater sales.
Read a book on TQM, then we can discuss the matter.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.
Since your legal interpretation didn’t come through like you said it would about a year ago, I sent a letter to the local FSDO, which was supposed to forward it to Washington (or wherever the FAA's lawyers are) and get a legal interpretation about a month and a half ago. I recently sent an e-mail to the FSDO asking for the status of that inquiry, but haven’t received a reply.
So, you are publicly stating that you violated the CFR's and the manufacturer's instructions!?
A problem with black and white comes to mind....
The SB states that a Master Rigger is to do the alteration period..end of subject .
MEL
QuoteThat is the same senerio that I am going through.I am still waiting on the legal department's document.
***
As for the other stuff, I disagree. I didn't alter it, I repaired it.
Derek
So, you are publicly stating that you violated the CFR's and the manufacturer's instructions!?
A problem with black and white comes to mind....
The SB states that a Master Rigger is to do the alteration period..end of subject .
MEL
Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com
Hooknswoop 19
QuoteSo, you are publicly stating that you violated the CFR's and the manufacturer's instructions!?
Um, no, the exact opposite in fact.
QuoteThe SB states that a Master Rigger is to do the alteration period..end of subject .
I said:
"RI has Product Modification Procedures (PMP's) for some of their rigs. They'll authorize Senior Riggers to do most, if not all, of them. From looking at the SB, I could do it easily. They should classify it as a minor repair and let Senior Riggers that have the equipment and feel they can do it handle it. Mirage should authorize $X.XX for riggers that turn in S/N's (or pics, or other proof) of containers they have applied the SB to to get paid. This does motivate me to hurry up and finish my Master ticket though."
I never said Senior Riggers could do this Mirage SB. I said they should authorize Senior Riggers to do the SB. Black and white........
Derek
***
As for the other stuff, I disagree. I didn't alter it, I repaired it.
As for the other stuff, I disagree. I didn't alter it, I repaired it.
Quote
This implies that you did the work.In black and blue......
BS,
MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com
Hooknswoop 19
You didn't read my post carefully enough then. I never said I did the Mirage SB. In fact I have said I wasn't going to do it to Kelli's rig. I have done some RI PMP's to RI"s rigs, with their blessing. I used that as an example that Mirage could state for "Authorized Personnel: Senior or Master Rigger"
If you want to call the FAA and report me, go ahead. I'm sure they will drop whatever they are doing, knock on my door, and demand to know what I did.
I'll show them the fax from RI with the manufacturer's permission to do the work. Or maybe I'll shrug and say I don't know what they are talking about and to come back with some evidence. Or maybe the FAA doesn't give a damn and won't come knocking on my door.
Derek
If you want to call the FAA and report me, go ahead. I'm sure they will drop whatever they are doing, knock on my door, and demand to know what I did.
I'll show them the fax from RI with the manufacturer's permission to do the work. Or maybe I'll shrug and say I don't know what they are talking about and to come back with some evidence. Or maybe the FAA doesn't give a damn and won't come knocking on my door.
Derek
***
I never said Senior Riggers could do this Mirage SB. I said they should authorize Senior Riggers to do the SB. Black and white........
I never said Senior Riggers could do this Mirage SB. I said they should authorize Senior Riggers to do the SB. Black and white........
Quote
Again, A manufacturer cannot upgrade the privilages of your certificate by merely stating that in some SB.
You, the rigger, are responsible for knowing what your limitations are.
Besides this is an alteration plain and simple!
Ask the manufacturer....
With that said, I am done with that discussion and back to the real topic at hand.
We are pro-rating the reserve repack cost with the date of the last repack to help the cost thing.
If any one is interested they can contact us.
Thanks,
MEL
Skyworks Parachute Service
skyworksparasvc@aol.comSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com
pajarito 0
QuoteThis is exactly the point. Perhaps you and Diablopilot should take it from the top. It's really not about money, it's about the current trend of issuing an SB and expecting the customer to pay for it.
It's about not taking responsibility for your design. If the consumer gives the manufacturers' permission to pay for it's own design flaws, then who holds them accountable for their quality processes. If they had to take financial responsibility for each SB issued, their quality control process would improve, their costs would go down, much happier customer base = greater sales.
Correct! The customer shouldn't have to pay a damn thing to fix their mistake. Like I said in the other thread, I bought a new Mirage G-4 at the WFFC, it's got the wrong configuration, and I'll have to get it fixed. I don't even have parachutes in it yet. It's barely out of the bag. I just paid a wad of money for something that I've not used yet and will already have to fix. I was told in the other thread that it would be a cheap fix since I don't have anything in it yet but that's beside the point. Bad business to make your customers pay for your design flaw IMO. I don't care if it only cost me a quarter. Yes...yes...I know I'm a cheap bastard.
Quote***
We are pro-rating the reserve repack cost with the date of the last repack to help the cost thing.
If any one is interested they can contact us.
Thanks,
MEL
Skyworks Parachute Service
skyworksparasvc@aol.com
Mel,
Very generous of you. PM me your address to ship rig to. I can do it (qualified) but am way too busy trying to figure out how to retire from the USAF to try.
Thank Again,
Tim Tennant
Team Paraclete
QuoteRead a book on TQM, then we can discuss the matter.
I wrote one.
QuotePerhaps you and Diablopilot should take it from the top.
Maybe you should. It's not a new trend, and I'm guessing you have little knowlage of the gear industry.
So who payed for all the acid mesh SB's? What about the Javelin closing loop mod? Take a look at the history of SB's.
Since Mirgae is doing this one for free, and this thread is about the Mirage SB, what are you still talking about?
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
mysky 1
Alright, in another section on this forum I read that someone said Mirage must be making a profit because they are getting $45.00 for a reserve repack and only paying someone $30,000 a year as a rigger. How you came up with Mirage making $90,000 a year is beyond me. Do you actually think they do one rig an hour on a reserve repack? I am really quite taken back by the folks that think Mirage is actually doing this to turn a profit. Let's see here, $1800.00 for a new rig or $45.00 and a slight cost for a modification that may or may not save your life and also the fact that some folks might be upset with the company and not want to purchase from Mirage again? Ya, I'm sure it's the $15.00 mod that's going to get them to Bill Gates town. Come on people don't make the skydiving community sound like a bunch of idiots. Before you freak out give it a couple more months when the other rig makers issue the same bulletin so you can gripe about the "WHOLE" industry. Think it through. This is a positive change not a profiting negative one. Yes what a bummer we have to spend a few bucks but look at it as a performance enhancement that may say your life.
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those that know how to count, and those who don't.
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those that know how to count, and those who don't.
sundevil777 102
If Airtec says that the mod should/must be done, is the SB then enforcable because the AAD must be maintained in accordance...
Might this be officially required in this way?
Might this be officially required in this way?
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am
Hooknswoop 19
Quote
Might this be officially required in this way?
No, this SB is for the container, not the AAD. Nothing is done to the AAD.
Derek
sundevil777 102
But if Airtec officially says it should be, then it is now part of their reccomendation...
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am
Hooknswoop 19
QuoteBut if Airtec officially says it should be, then it is now part of their reccomendation...
Doesn't matter. The FAA says the AAD must be maintained, etc.... This SB is for the container, not the AAD. Nothing is being done to the Cypres or Vigil or Astra. The maintenance requirements for the Cypres1 are the 4 and 8 year maint checks and batts every 2 years or 500 jumps. As long as it meets those requirements, it's legal.
Derek
Derek
sundevil777 102
I should have been more specific to make it clear that I was speculating, in the event that Airtec might choose to specify that a Mirage should/must have the mod done
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am
Hooknswoop 19
Quote: I should have been more specific to make it clear that I was speculating, in the event that Airtec might choose to specify that a Mirage should/must have the mod done
They can't do that because you can jump the rig w/o an AAD. Airtec can say you have to wear a pink jumpsuit when jumping with their AAD, but doen't mean you do. They can set the maintenance requirements for their AAD, they can't require SB's be done to containers.
Derek
Quote1. Why should it cost the skydiver one dime when a manufacturer issues an SB? I get a recall from the vehicle manufacturer, I drive in with a notice, the dealer fixes it, they sign, I sign, they get paid by the manufacturer.
2. What is there about this that requires a Master Rigger over a Senior Rigger? We don't have a Master Rigger in the state. So, it's about $60.00 out of pocket to ship and insure it.
FYI:
We (Chutingstar/Mirage) are doing the mod for free along with free return FedEx Express Saver shipping. The only thing you have to pay for is shipping to Chutingstar in Atlanta and any extra rigging work you want done (inspections/repacks, other maintenance, etc.). And you don't have to get any extra rigging work if you don't want it. In other words, if you would rather your local rigger inspect/repack it after the mod, that is fine. Or we can complete that for you here in the loft.
See our web site www.chutingstar.com for our mailing address. Send it to Chutingstar, Attn: Mirage PSB 12-04. Please include all of your contact info in case we have any issues with your rig.
Turnaround time is two business days...that is, it will be shipped out to you two days after we receive the rig.
If you have any questions, you can contact me at 1-800-877-7199.
Mike
ChutingStar.com
BIGUN 1,457
QuoteI wrote one.
1. Your book on TQM have a title, publisher and ISBN number?
2. I'm still talking about the fact that it's not free (paying for shipping ain't free) and the history of SB's is that the cost has NOT always been passed on to the consumer.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.
Quote2. I'm still talking about the fact that it's not free (paying for shipping ain't free) and the history of SB's is that the cost has NOT always been passed on to the consumer.
I have gone through the SB's I have and am having trouble finding one where part of the cost of compliance was not passed on to the owner of the rig/canopy.
Which one(s) were you referring to?
Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals
Since your legal interpretation didn’t come through like you said it would about a year ago, I sent a letter to the local FSDO, which was supposed to forward it to Washington (or wherever the FAA's lawyers are) and get a legal interpretation about a month and a half ago. I recently sent an e-mail to the FSDO asking for the status of that inquiry, but haven’t received a reply.
As for the other stuff, I disagree. I didn't alter it, I repaired it.
Derek
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