crazydiver 0 #1 January 4, 2005 Has there ever been any incidence of a drogue bridle that was so twisted during freefall that it twisted below the three ring and created a hard drogue release much like line twists could create a hard cutaway? Are hard housings for the drogue releases by the three ring warranted or not useful? Just curious and wanted to create a new conversation. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 January 4, 2005 Its a non-issue on Sigma tandem systems, the drogue system as a whole is completely different (better then the rest of the systems out there, IMO) and it would be basically impossible to have a hard drogue release pull due to an out of trim drogue spinning up.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #3 January 4, 2005 Ya, I was talking for vector I's and II's and eclipses. The strongs already have hard housings and I know the sigmas are different. Why would it be impossible? I realize there is a lot of force created between the drogue and the tandem pair, but why is it so impossible? Just curious. I figure it would be a long shot, but I am just curious why it would be nearly impossible. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #4 January 4, 2005 Quote I figure it would be a long shot, but I am just curious why it would be nearly impossible. Firstly, I don't have a rigger's ticket, I'm just a gear geek and a TI. The setup, with the canalever lines going to the straight pin holding the container closed isn't involved with the actual drogue, so if the drogue spins it doesn't effect that system. The absolute worst I could see happening is the disk turning a bit under the flaps, but even then I can't think of anything serious happening (since the drogue release locking pin would have been pulled due to the drogue being out) besides maybe some premature wear on the gear. A spinning drogue *might* create an uncollapsed drogue during opening and canopy flight, which would change the canopy's flight characteristics and make the opening harder, but even that is quite unlikely due to the drogue's design. As for a Vector tandem, I could see that a spinning drogue *could* twist the 3-ring system up, but I think it would be less of a problem with the cables then the actual 3 rings. To me, it seems that since its a single piece (with two cables in it) and not something like two risers spinning around each other creating force and tension, then the chances of a complete no-pull scenerio are slim. Could it happen, I think it could, but there are a lot of could happens (especially with tandems) that aren't very plausable. Once again, that's just my non-rigger opinion.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #5 January 4, 2005 ya fo sho. thats why sigmas are so much better than previous models. The extra drogue release handle on the eclipses is nice too. Its funny we are just here sittin on our computers late at night talking on DZ.com forums. College students to the max! Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #6 January 4, 2005 QuoteHas there ever been any incidence of a drogue bridle that was so twisted during freefall that it twisted below above the three ring and created a hard drogue release much like line twists could create a hard cutaway drogue release? Yes. edit: cause I forgot a "]", boy what a mess THAT made.....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #7 January 4, 2005 QuoteQuoteHas there ever been any incidence of a drogue bridle that was so twisted during freefall that it twisted below above the three ring and created a hard drogue release much like line twists could create a hard cutaway drogue release? Quote No, I meant cutaway. I was comparing it to line twists on a main. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #8 January 4, 2005 Quote Its funny we are just here sittin on our computers late at night talking on DZ.com forums. College students to the max! Im sitting here watching that dodgeball movie... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crazydiver 0 #9 January 4, 2005 Quote Im sitting here watching that dodgeball movie... I started watchin that the other night but I fell asleep. I need to watch it again cuz it looks hilarious. Oddly, I have been able to watch napolean dynamite five or so times and still love it. Thanks for the responses. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #10 January 4, 2005 A twisted drogue would have no effect at all on the cutaway force, except perhapse on an Eclipse with the additional drogue release built into the cutaway system (Strong is the same, but has hard housings for the droug release.) For clarification to cutaway means to relese the main risers, Drogue release means to.....well release the drogue via the drogue's three ring.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #11 January 4, 2005 QuoteHas there ever been any incidence of a drogue bridle that was so twisted during freefall that it twisted below the three ring and created a hard drogue release much like line twists could create a hard cutaway? Are hard housings for the drogue releases by the three ring warranted or not useful? Just curious and wanted to create a new conversation. I think I read of that happening in Australia. I don't think the APF keeps their newslettes on their web page anymore, I'd have to check. They are very good reading though. Honest, straight foward incident reports. They keep names, places and egos out of the reports which makes for good lessons for all. Edit: I checked their web page and can't find the newsletters anymore. Try e-mailing the APF and ask them about an incident with a spun up drogue preventing the drogue release ripcord from being pulled. I remember reading about it and asking a major manufacturer about it and if hard housings for the ends of the ripcords would be a good idea. From what I remember, it wasn't their rig that had the issue and they had a good reason why the inserts were't necessary on their rigs. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #12 January 4, 2005 Has a drogue ever twisted so much that it pinched the kill line enough to prevent the drogue form collapsing after release? Not as big of a problem but a good way to get a real hard opening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverton 0 #13 January 4, 2005 QuoteHas a drogue ever twisted so much that it pinched the kill line enough to prevent the drogue form collapsing after release? Not as big of a problem but a good way to get a real hard opening. yes ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Danne 0 #14 January 4, 2005 Yes, it has happend to me. Old V2 drogue that probably was out of shape. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crazydiver 0 #15 January 4, 2005 QuoteFor clarification to cutaway means to relese the main risers, Drogue release means to.....well release the drogue via the drogue's three ring. You aren't getting my analogy. Its not a big deal, but to clarify...I was asking if the ends of the drogue release cables and the three ring on the drogue could get twisted up and create a hard release MUCH LIKE risers can get twisted up and create a hard cutaway on a main canopy. Two totally different situations. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #16 January 4, 2005 Quote was asking if the ends of the drogue release cables and the three ring on the drogue could get twisted up and create a hard release MUCH LIKE risers can get twisted up and create a hard cutaway on a main canopy. Two totally different situations. Risers can twist up against each other creating a hard/impossible pull because they twist against each other. A tandem drogue where the excess drogue release rip cord is inside the drogue bridle can get captured if the drogue spins in free fall. It has happened, but it is rare. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #17 January 5, 2005 QuoteYes, it has happend to me. Old V2 drogue that probably was out of shape. Was it a pretty hard opening and was the extra drag noticeable under canopy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Danne 0 #18 January 5, 2005 Was it a pretty hard opening and was the extra drag noticeable under canopy? -------------------------------------------------- The snatch force was really "snappy" but the rest of the opening is pretty normal. The canopy felt a bit different when turning, more sluggish. /Danne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #19 January 6, 2005 Both Strong and Racer tandems have metal housings below the 3-Ring on the drogue riser. Even a badly-twisted drogue bridle is unlikely to jam drogue release cable. A mis-routed bridle - between the drogue release and main pin - is far more likely to do you in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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justinb138 0 #8 January 4, 2005 Quote Its funny we are just here sittin on our computers late at night talking on DZ.com forums. College students to the max! Im sitting here watching that dodgeball movie... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #9 January 4, 2005 Quote Im sitting here watching that dodgeball movie... I started watchin that the other night but I fell asleep. I need to watch it again cuz it looks hilarious. Oddly, I have been able to watch napolean dynamite five or so times and still love it. Thanks for the responses. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #10 January 4, 2005 A twisted drogue would have no effect at all on the cutaway force, except perhapse on an Eclipse with the additional drogue release built into the cutaway system (Strong is the same, but has hard housings for the droug release.) For clarification to cutaway means to relese the main risers, Drogue release means to.....well release the drogue via the drogue's three ring.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #11 January 4, 2005 QuoteHas there ever been any incidence of a drogue bridle that was so twisted during freefall that it twisted below the three ring and created a hard drogue release much like line twists could create a hard cutaway? Are hard housings for the drogue releases by the three ring warranted or not useful? Just curious and wanted to create a new conversation. I think I read of that happening in Australia. I don't think the APF keeps their newslettes on their web page anymore, I'd have to check. They are very good reading though. Honest, straight foward incident reports. They keep names, places and egos out of the reports which makes for good lessons for all. Edit: I checked their web page and can't find the newsletters anymore. Try e-mailing the APF and ask them about an incident with a spun up drogue preventing the drogue release ripcord from being pulled. I remember reading about it and asking a major manufacturer about it and if hard housings for the ends of the ripcords would be a good idea. From what I remember, it wasn't their rig that had the issue and they had a good reason why the inserts were't necessary on their rigs. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #12 January 4, 2005 Has a drogue ever twisted so much that it pinched the kill line enough to prevent the drogue form collapsing after release? Not as big of a problem but a good way to get a real hard opening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #13 January 4, 2005 QuoteHas a drogue ever twisted so much that it pinched the kill line enough to prevent the drogue form collapsing after release? Not as big of a problem but a good way to get a real hard opening. yes ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Danne 0 #14 January 4, 2005 Yes, it has happend to me. Old V2 drogue that probably was out of shape. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #15 January 4, 2005 QuoteFor clarification to cutaway means to relese the main risers, Drogue release means to.....well release the drogue via the drogue's three ring. You aren't getting my analogy. Its not a big deal, but to clarify...I was asking if the ends of the drogue release cables and the three ring on the drogue could get twisted up and create a hard release MUCH LIKE risers can get twisted up and create a hard cutaway on a main canopy. Two totally different situations. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #16 January 4, 2005 Quote was asking if the ends of the drogue release cables and the three ring on the drogue could get twisted up and create a hard release MUCH LIKE risers can get twisted up and create a hard cutaway on a main canopy. Two totally different situations. Risers can twist up against each other creating a hard/impossible pull because they twist against each other. A tandem drogue where the excess drogue release rip cord is inside the drogue bridle can get captured if the drogue spins in free fall. It has happened, but it is rare. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #17 January 5, 2005 QuoteYes, it has happend to me. Old V2 drogue that probably was out of shape. Was it a pretty hard opening and was the extra drag noticeable under canopy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Danne 0 #18 January 5, 2005 Was it a pretty hard opening and was the extra drag noticeable under canopy? -------------------------------------------------- The snatch force was really "snappy" but the rest of the opening is pretty normal. The canopy felt a bit different when turning, more sluggish. /Danne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #19 January 6, 2005 Both Strong and Racer tandems have metal housings below the 3-Ring on the drogue riser. Even a badly-twisted drogue bridle is unlikely to jam drogue release cable. A mis-routed bridle - between the drogue release and main pin - is far more likely to do you in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
