Sabre (not sabre 2) for first gear purchase?

[JeffSkydiver 0]

Hi All,

I am a returning skydiver, meaning I went through AFF (accelerated version) recently because I had been away from the sport for 23 years. In my old skydive life, I had jumped squares etc., much like today, except for today's zero P canopies, which I love.

So, just coming off AFF, and weighing about 200, I have been jumping a 280' main.

Then I went to my DZ's store, run by a rigger, who helped me choose used gear to purchase. I won't jump the gear yet until I work my way down from the 280' to something smaller - like a 220 or so.

Anyway, the canopy recommended to me for my first gear purchase is a Sabre (not Sabre2) and I think the size is either 220 or 210.

The question I have is this: On here I have read every thread about the Sabre and do not like what I am hearing - the hard openings.

Remember, I have been away from this for 23 years, which means I am 23 years older. I do not want to take unnecessary risks.

Don't preach to me, I know there is always a risk of anything happening using any gear etc etc etc. I am only making the point that it seems the Sabre has a reputation for the hard openings - should I change my purchase (it's now on layaway) and go with something with a better repuation? Or is everything I've read hogwash?

Do you think the DZ gear selling rigger guy should have known about the Sabre's reputation?

What say you?

jt

*

Let's all do this safe enough that we can still do this in our 90's.

[AggieDave 6]

If you do a search you'll find many many threads about the original Sabres and how they open, what to do if you get a canopy that opens hard, etc.

You'll also find in a search that when choosing a canopy, always talk to your instructors/the head instructor/S&TA before you talk to gear dealers to figure out what would be best for you.

Also, you'll find that most people still consider the original Sabre a good starting canopy.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Fab 0]

Have you read all the gear reviews here at DZ.com about the sabre?

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/gear/review.cgi?ID=17

I haven't flown a sabre yet but know the reputation. Appearantly it was designed to open quick so you can enjoy as much as canopy-time possible
Maybe a (used) Silhouette (also from PD) is something for you if you decide you want a different chute. I have jumped them a couple of times and they have good/comfortable openings and fly great.

Added:

Also jump a canopy before you buy one and determine for yourself if you like the chute (openings, flying characteristics, etc.)

_______________________________________

[freakflyer9999 1]

I put about 100 jumps on my Sabre 230 with an exit weight between 240 and 260.

Yes it did give me a few brisk openings, but each time it was something I did during packing. Either experimenting with new packing techniques or being too lazy to start over when I knew it had slipped around while getting it into the bag. It never slammed me hard enough to leave a bruise that I would call major. I have had much worse on my Falcon and had an opening on a MT-1X that gave me a hernia.

The original Sabre, in good condition, is a perfectly fine choice to return to the sport on.

I now jump a PD Navigator and have also owned an Icarus Omega. Both of these have sweet on heading openings every time. Canopy design has changed in the last 10 years. Many current production canopies have sniveling openings. My Omega sometimes sniveled as much as 6-700 feet, so obviously you need to adjust opening altitudes and make sure that you remain altitude aware during the opening sequence.

Blue Skies

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Sabres work as well now as they did when the freefall canopy choices from PD were 7/9 cell F111, the Sabre, and Stiletto (which isn't appropriate with fewer than 300-500 ram air jumps) which is to say just fine.

While they don't open as slowly as more modern designs, reasonable attention to packing produces openings that aren't uncomfortable. The same can be said for Precision's Monarch (ZP, square, about the same). I couldn't say the same for my jumps on student gear which left black, blue, and yellow bruises.

There are better choices in brand new parachutes although at under $500 a used one with a few hundred jumps remaining on the lineset would make a fine first canopy.

[stratostar 5]

Jeff,
I have used two 170 sabres for jumping camera for the last ten years, one is almost that old, then other was custom made in 97, both are packed the same way (by me ONLY!)
and I have never been spanked, the new one is a little harder(read brisk) some times(1 out of 10) when sloppy packing in to the bag.
The old one (now on it 4th line set) is super soft and on heading every time! With all the folks these days who don't pack for them selfs all I can say is you get what you pay for.
As for the others, I see a lot, if not most throw down a canopy then try to force the air out of zp, instead of taking a little extra time to do the job right.
If people jumping sabres would pack better most hard openings wouldn't happen. thats not to say there are not a few bad apples out there.
I have not weighed my camera set up, but everone who has picked it up would agree that is between 15 to 20lbs aprox.
All I know is that with a heavy ass camera helmet on my head
if the sabre was a shit canopy I would have sold them a long time ago because I'm to old to get whiplash everyday....
p.s. don't go by what you read here, go jump it and make up your own mind as to how it opens, just pack it like the pd manual says to,after all they wrote the book on it!


~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[mattjw916 2]

To put in my 2 cents, I know several people that jump them and survive without many complaints. I have seen some with a larger slider and one with a pocketed slider, and one otherwise unmodded according to the owner that I talked to. I'd jump one, as long as I had a rigger I trusted check it out first.

Good luck!

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[btucker 0]

- often the larger sabres will open slower. I think (assuming a cheap price) a good first canopy. As a big Sabre, it will have duel control lines which will make it turn quicker = more fun to fly.

I have two sabre 150's with standard sliders - with trash packs one of them spanks me 1/100 the other 1/10 (trim issues perhaps?). I've had a 190 which was always very kind to me, even those times I dumped in tracks.

I think you need to have the canopy test jumped to see how quick it opens, especialy if you have back or neck issues. If it does open too quick you can address this with packing techniques, a bigger slider or another canopy!


Blues & Welcome back!

[dropzonefool 0]

HI Jeff, all the crap about Sabre opening hard are just packing errors. I have seen several jumpers doing stupid shit to "slow down" the openings instead of reading the manufacture manual on how to pack it. The other thing I find surprising is that jumpers believe Sabre are not high performance canopy. So thay expect docile response from them. The sad truth is a Sabre IS a high performance canopy and one should expect bad openings when packed poorly. Saber is not so much different from other manufactures(packing)

[JeffSkydiver 0]

Many many thanks to all of you for your posts, especially Stratostar, Freakflyer and Drew - I respect your many years in the sport.

In my original post, I tried to anticipate the replies I would receive and address those matters then. Apparently either I was unclear or some people did not fully read the original post. Therefore, please know:

YES - I read every post about the Sabre BEFORE I placed my question here.

and

The person who recommended this canopy works at the DZ as a TI, an AFF Instructor, Coach etc etc with thousands of jumps and who has helped me quite a bit with questions etc. Only recently he also started working in the DZ store as assisting customers with gear purchases, including me.

I hope this helps.

By the way Stratostar, the first and last rig I owned - in 1981 - was a Stratostar (5 cell of course) in a Wonderhog with a round reserve.

I smacked myself around a few times landing that thing. The whole rig cost me $400 used.

I also read all the posts on that canopy and it brought back memories.

Thanks for welcoming me back. I am loving it.

I plan on going to Skydive St. Mary's - Georgia - the week of the PIA convention in Jacksonville Jan 15 ish. They are bringing in an Otter. It's a new DZ run by a wonderful couple I only just met. Glenn Bangs makes it his home DZ now and its the closest DZ to the convention. They are hoping for quite a turnout. I live over 2 hours away, but I'm planning on being there.

Thanks again,

jt

*

Let's all do this safe enough that we can still do this in our 90's.

[stratostar 5]

By the way Stratostar, the first and last rig I owned - in 1981 - was a Stratostar (5 cell of course) in a Wonderhog with a round reserve.
................................................................................
And your worried about jumping a sabre.
Do you still have it?
I love my 1977 wonderhog, have a paracomander it fun rig to jump.

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[billvon 3,116]

> Or is everything I've read hogwash?

The sabre 1 requires more attention to packing than other canopies. Also make sure you have the larger slider, which was introduded around 1994 or so. I _think_ the newer Sabre 1 210's have the brake line mod, which looks like two sets of brake lines per side. It was introduced by PD to slow down the openings of the larger Sabres.

A lot of opening feel depends on you. If you fall slowly (i.e. are tall and skinny) openings will seem softer. Heavy guys on Sabre 1's will tend to have harder openings. A lot depends on packing (of course) and gear selection (appropriately small PC is a big factor.)

If you get it, try the packing tricks and the smaller PC and it still opens hard, try a pocket slider (easy addition) - that will almost always fix the problem.

[slug 1]

Hi Jeff

If I'm reading this correctly your thinking about buying a used Sabre 1 from a local shop.

Some sabres may spank you some won't

No harm no foul Check your grapevine about the shop

R.I.P.

[JeffSkydiver 0]

Hi

I'd like to revive this discussion in light of the discussion on Sabre 1 going on in the Incident forum - fatality at Titusville.

What say you?

jt

*

Let's all do this safe enough that we can still do this in our 90's.

[stratostar 5]

I can only speak for the two I use for camera jumps
and not for one that blew up. (age?)
I will keep using mine for camera because I get great openings out of them both from the day I got them. With that said, there is a chance one of them could blow up and kill me, but that would apply to any canopy on the market as well, in this sport shit happends and people die for many reasons it is something you have to be willing to risk period.
Do you think Chris Martin thought he would passout
with line twist? I don't know wasn't there, but I do know he had at least think of all the what if's and was willing to take a risk jumping that canopy.
We all do it every time we jump out of an aircraft!

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Salsa_John 0]

I currently jump a Sabre1 210 loaded at .9.

I have frequent closed end cells.

Some of them are so severe that I end up in a diving turn and I have to get to the toggles to correct the issue.

My approach is fairly steep with an ok flare.

My packs are adjusted to solve the hard opens.


I am thinking about downsizing to a Sabre2 190 in another 20-30 jumps.

It has a flatter approach, a stronger flair, and is less likely to spank me.

My landings are mostly standup and fairly soft.

Comments welcome

"You did what?!?!"

MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez