billvon 3,116 #1 August 14, 2012 It's not hard to evade airport security. I'm sure skydivers (for example) could think of a way to get onto airport grounds with any tools they like without having to go through security. At best it stops the most obvious ways to get into the terminal area. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #2 August 14, 2012 This reminds me of one of the stories of Richard Marcinko's "Red Cell" team when they were testing the security of US military bases. The base commander was alerted they were coming, but they were able to penetrate it with ease. Why? Because they came in through the most difficult route: A steep cliff that bordered one side of the base. That side wasn't guarded because they thought no one would try that. "There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #3 August 14, 2012 >That's not my point. This is supposed to be one of the top-of-the line systems with all >the whiz bang gizmos . . . Uh, that IS my point. Even the top of the line systems with the whiz bang gizmos are not hard to penetrate. Adding money and gadgets does not change this. If you have a clipboard, a badge (doesn't matter what it says) and a lackey you can get almost anywhere in any "secure" environment. Add a parachute, or a SCUBA system, or a rap line and it gets even easier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 895 #4 August 14, 2012 I used to love testing security at the bases I was at. the MP's gave us this little "get outta jail free" card. I was able to run through a recoring facility once. Of course I had like 12 guys chasing me...barely made it into the van to "escape"! Technically, we never succeeded. They always got to us in seconds. I'm positive they knew it was a test every time we did it too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #5 August 14, 2012 Quote I'm positive they knew it was a test every time we did it too. depending on the security level they'd have to, lethal force is an authorized response at many locations and quite a few security guards I've met want any excuse to shoot someone.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #6 August 14, 2012 QuoteQuote I'm positive they knew it was a test every time we did it too. depending on the security level they'd have to, lethal force is an authorized response at many locations and quite a few security guards I've met want any excuse to shoot someone. I was thinking that, too. Am I naive for thinking the "test intruders" were at some risk of getting shot? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 895 #7 August 14, 2012 Agreed. Part of why I was convinced they knew we were testing those nights. For an actual intrusion, it would have been impossible to gain access utilizing the routes we did. You would have had to be on base already....and the sub facility itself is generally nowhere near the main entrance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #8 August 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote I'm positive they knew it was a test every time we did it too. depending on the security level they'd have to, lethal force is an authorized response at many locations and quite a few security guards I've met want any excuse to shoot someone. I was thinking that, too. Am I naive for thinking the "test intruders" were at some risk of getting shot? In the case of "Red Cell", the base to be intruded upon was issued this before the test: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simunition"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #9 August 14, 2012 >A guy in a bright colored lifejacket swims out of the bay, climbs a razor wire fence, >and walks across a two mile airport and several active runways without being >detected, spotted, challenged, etc. I'd call that a crap system. OK. Indeed, you might consider the best systems out there to be "crap systems," they all have their failure modes and weaknesses. I've inadvertently ended up in busy airport terminals with bags of tools (including utility knives etc) - and I wasn't even trying to smuggle things in. Also ended up in the wrong places in military bases and wandered around for a while without being challenged. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #10 August 14, 2012 Quote Because they came in through the most difficult route: A steep cliff that bordered one side of the base. That side wasn't guarded because they thought no one would try that. Battle of the Plains of Abraham, 1759. Invasion of France 1939/40 through the Argonne. Destruction of the Eder Dam, 1943.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #11 August 15, 2012 >Well, apparently $100 Million wasn't enough. To stop everyone? Agreed. $100 trillion wouldn't be enough. There's no such thing as a foolproof system, and history is rife with stories of escapes from escape-proof prisons, thefts from impregnable safes, infiltrations of 100% secure facilities, sinkings of unsinkable ships etc. >And yeah, if someone can do what he just did without being detected (which I would >have thought was the point of the $100 million bucks that were spent) then I'd call the >best systems in the world 'crap systems' Well there ya go. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #12 August 15, 2012 >And you're right there ya go. More overpriced under-performing crap supplied by >government contractors and paid for by your money. Yep. Although per your definition all systems are crap no matter who supplies them. Or to put it another way - Murphy pays no heed to how much the system cost or where it came from. >And I still want my money back!!! I just want the few hundred hours back I've waited in lines . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #13 August 15, 2012 Quote manufactured by defense contractor Raytheon Co. enough said.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #14 August 16, 2012 Quote Quote manufactured by defense contractor Raytheon Co. enough said. Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites