Collins Lanyard

[PhreeZone 20]

>The real unfortunate thing is if you're not a rigger yourself, how can you tell the bad ones?

Its pretty easy. Look at their pack jobs. The ones that take pride in their work and know what they are doing have closed the flaps in the right order, have the pilot chutes correctly set and have very few if any wrinkles in a pack job.

I was once told by a rigger that there was no way you could have Vectan and Spectra on the same canopy, it just would'nt work. Another told me that I was talking out my ass when I said that the Vigils had a recall out on some of them. Not every rigger knows everything.

I'll bet that there are riggers that learn something new every time they read DZ.com.

I really need to get off my rear and take my test this winter just so that all of a sudden my opinion is better

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[kelpdiver 2]

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The real unfortunate thing is if you're not a rigger yourself, how can you tell the bad ones?

He posts here, and waits for the other riggers to start clammoring.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Do you really believe it is better to seek information about your gear on a public forum then it is to contact the manufacture or a trusted rigger in your area?
Is that the same route you take when you have a question about an A/C you are flying? Forget the A/P or the manufacture, got to the net.

If you want the best information about dive (scuba) computers, you would go to rec.scuba. There you would find that the tech units from Cochrane eat batteries for breakfast, and turn off during dives a lot, can talk to one of the witnesses in the class action against Uwatec for a known faulty algorithm, or find out Suunto is aggressively conservative in measuring oxygen toxicity concerns. Or that Pelgagic makes all of the units for a number of brand names, including Oceanic, Aeris, and Genesis.

Decompression theory is still very young in development and manufacturers tend to err greatly on the side of caution since people can get bent even on profiles within the known limits. So they program in lots of fudge factors and write in the manual - "not to be used for decompression diving," even though all diving is and the unit will recommend mandatory deco stops if needed. As we have seen, Suunto's manual for the Vector clearly states it shouldn't be used for skydiving either.

So yeah, public forums have more experts, and ones without a stake in the answer. One should always look for contradictory opinions to a single claim, be it from the manufacturer or your single local master rigger/diver/whatever. Public forums also have more wrong answers, but they rarely go unchallenged.

[mjosparky 4]

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Do you really believe it is better to seek information about your gear on a public forum then it is to contact the manufacture or a trusted rigger in your area?
Is that the same route you take when you have a question about an A/C you are flying? Forget the A/P or the manufacture, got to the net.

If you want the best information about dive (scuba) computers, you would go to rec.scuba. There you would find that the tech units from Cochrane eat batteries for breakfast, and turn off during dives a lot, can talk to one of the witnesses in the class action against Uwatec for a known faulty algorithm, or find out Suunto is aggressively conservative in measuring oxygen toxicity concerns. Or that Pelgagic makes all of the units for a number of brand names, including Oceanic, Aeris, and Genesis.

Decompression theory is still very young in development and manufacturers tend to err greatly on the side of caution since people can get bent even on profiles within the known limits. So they program in lots of fudge factors and write in the manual - "not to be used for decompression diving," even though all diving is and the unit will recommend mandatory deco stops if needed. As we have seen, Suunto's manual for the Vector clearly states it shouldn't be used for skydiving either.

So yeah, public forums have more experts, and ones without a stake in the answer. One should always look for contradictory opinions to a single claim, be it from the manufacturer or your single local master rigger/diver/whatever. Public forums also have more wrong answers, but they rarely go unchallenged.

I am not sure what your point is.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mjosparky 4]

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I'll bet that there are riggers that learn something new every time they read DZ.com.

You are right, or least they should.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[pilotdave 0]

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Judging from recent history I would say can be a very important feature. Just a few months ago there were 3 saves by a ballistic recovery system on the Cirrus. One in Canada and 2 in Florida. All on the same weekend.
And that is not opinion, it is fact. I got these facts from the manufacture.

You made up your own opinion based on the fact that there have been 3 recent saves. There are many many pilots in the world that, regardless of the 3 recent saves, believe BRS systems are unnecessary and a waste of money and weight. If you ask Lancair for their opinion (which of course i haven't actually done, i'm just using this as an example), I'm willing to be they'll tell you that all 3 of those aircraft that were saved by BRS systems recently were Cirruses, and that no Lancair Columbias have been in a situation that required a BRS, and yada yada. Cirruses are falling out of the sky all the time, but Lancair hasn't had an accident due to structural failure, blah blah, etc.

It's not a cut and dry issue, just like the collins lanyard or the skyhook or the type of reserve handle or main deployment system or exposed vs unexposed pop top.

So you learned the pros and cons of the collins lanyard from what, an FAA advisory circular? Just like you said below, a rigger should learn something every time they come here. If they knew it all, that wouldn't be possible.

I obviously can't judge whether a rigger is right or wrong all the time, but when a rigger says something contrary to the manufacturer or contrary to the laws of physics, I feel highly qualified to determine that he's wrong.

You can't learn how to fly from a forum any more than you can learn how to pack a reserve. But you can learn a whole lot about flying or about packing a reserve. A pilot or rigger obviously has to be pretty careful about applying knowledge gained from a stranger, but are you really suggesting that it's useless for a skydiver to ask a question about gear on a public forum?

Dave

[mjosparky 4]

"You keep thinking Butch, thats what you are good at"

I suggest you get your riggers ticket so you won't be surrounded by morons.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[pilotdave 0]

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"You keep thinking Butch, thats what you are good at"

I suggest you get your riggers ticket so you won't be surrounded by morons.

And what's that supposed to mean?

What exacly is your point in this thread? We should only ask the manufacturer when we have questions about gear? We shouldn't bother to post questions in this forum because the manufacturer will ALWAYS give the best answer to every question? Riggers magically know everything and never learn about gear and rigging from this forum? I'm no rigger, so you'll have to speak slowly and in simple words...

Dave

[mjosparky 4]

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"You keep thinking Butch, thats what you are good at"

I suggest you get your riggers ticket so you won't be surrounded by morons.

And what's that supposed to mean?

What exacly is your point in this thread? We should only ask the manufacturer when we have questions about gear? We shouldn't bother to post questions in this forum because the manufacturer will ALWAYS give the best answer to every question? Riggers magically know everything and never learn about gear and rigging from this forum? I'm no rigger, so you'll have to speak slowly and in simple words...

Dave

My point is wondering when it was a rigger pissed in your wheaties making you feel they either don't know shit, will lie about it, or they are just bad people.
There are some rigger who have worked hard to acquire the knowledge they have and continue seek more.
And it has been my experience the most manufactures will give you honest answers to honest questions. Of course they will tell you that any unique features they have are better, because they believe it or they wouldn't have made them in the first place.
Someone once told me, "You can't trust a man who doesn't trust anyone".

I am done.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[pilotdave 0]

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My point is wondering when it was a rigger pissed in your wheaties making you feel they either don't know shit, will lie about it, or they are just bad people.

Alright, since I never said any of that and don't agree with it at all, and it's your whole point, I'll be done here too. Try reading what I wrote without taking it personally.

Dave

[skydiverek 63]

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But is Sunpath the right place to ask that question? Probably not. And RWS isn't either (though I'm sure someone will quote Bill Booth saying that secondary riser covers are for marketing only or whatever someone has posted a few times).

Here is the quote (actually it's from riggerrob relaying what Bill Booth told him):

"Bill Booth explained to me that the main reason he installed extra, internal main riser covers on the Vector 3 was because the external riser covers were so shallow.
A quick look at a Sigma Tandem rig will reveal no internal riser covers, because the external riser covers are deep enough to hide the steering toggles.
Several other designers copied the Vector 3's extra riser covers without understanding why. For example, early Voodoos had extra riser covers, but recent Voodoos don't"

Source: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=793412#793412