Space Shuttle Lost Over Texas

[Iflyme 0]

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Generally speaking, its good ettiquette to read a thread in its entirety before posting, so you dont make a satement that doesnt fit, ask a question that has already be asked/answered, etc.

When did you become a moderator? When I need advice, I will seek it -- but not from you. After making almost 2000 posts, I am fully aware of how this forum operates.
Thanks to the others for the link.

[rhino 0]

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Awful. Really sad flashbacks to where I was when the Challenger went

Only happened a couple of days apart. Challenger was Jan 28th if I recall..

Sad...

Nasa should have aborted the launch THE MOMENT they saw the debris hit the wing..

Rhino

[falxori 0]

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When did you become a moderator? When I need advice, I will seek it -- but not from you. After making almost 2000 posts, I am fully aware of how this forum operates.

i agree.
i think that comment was really out of place, especially in this thread.
some patience never hurt anyone.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[PhreeZone 20]

You can't just abort a launch like that at that stage, well you can but thats provided you can tell whats going on in the images that you are seeing fast enough to do anything. You can't just shut down the SRB's, there has to be a controlled seperation, a then a controlled jestision of the fuel tank. Spain would have been the primary landing zone at that stage, if not North Africa.

It took time for them to look at the images to realize that it was possibly debris and once the orbiter reached a certian altitude it was committed to orbiting. Even if heat tiles were knocked off, there was nothing that they could do about it since they are not trained to replace them in space and they don't carry spares to do that.

I'm just going to let NASA do the investigation and see what they say was the cause.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[falxori 0]

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Even if heat tiles were knocked off, there was nothing that they could do about it since they are not trained to replace them in space and they don't carry spares to do that.

as far as i know they are only equiped for emergency procedures to fix the payload bay doors in case they wont close.
in order to space walk in other areas, (bottom of the orbiter) they usually use the robotic arm and i don't think there was one installed this time.

i guess they were hoping for the best because there was nothing they could have done about it anyway.
O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[cameramonkey 0]

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Generally speaking, its good ettiquette to read a thread in its entirety before posting, so you dont make a satement that doesnt fit, ask a question that has already be asked/answered, etc.

When did you become a moderator? When I need advice, I will seek it -- but not from you. After making almost 2000 posts, I am fully aware of how this forum operates.
Thanks to the others for the link.

well, apparently the edit with an apology for my shortness meant nothing, so I deleted the goddamned post.

sorry to offend but I assumed since I bought this nifty moderator hat on ebay it gave me the right to be a moderator anywhere I pleased...I guess your "number of posts" hat outranks mine... I bow to you oh forum god. /sarcasm

besides, I found the time to read the entire thread, and see where she was involved in the program, I just didnt see why you couldnt. Guess I am just in a grumpy mood lately with all the crap going on around here.

Two wrongs don't make a right, however three lefts DO!

[Michele 1]

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Guess I am just in a grumpy mood lately with all the crap going on around here.

Hi, Roy. I think a lot of us are, and this thread is not an easy one to deal with. Irrespective of moderators and hats and whatever, I appreciate that you removed your original post. Can you and Frank work this out in pm's from here on (or maybe ignore each other), so that this thread can be a source of news, info and condolences? I'd see that as a show of respect for those who died, and for HH, as well as the rest of the posters.

Thanks, Roy (and Frank)

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[skymama 37]

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I assumed since I bought this nifty moderator hat on ebay it gave me the right to be a moderator anywhere I pleased

Geez, they'll let anyone buy those things these days.

Guys, let's keep this discussion to the Columbia disaster. If you have anything else to say to each other, take it to the pm's please.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[falxori 0]

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to the Challenger disaster

hmmm, wrong shuttle

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[cameramonkey 0]

Sorry to all who I offended... I think its time to put away my keyboard for a while and just read... *sigh*

[ChileRelleno 0]

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and was travelling at about mach 6.

Try Mach 18.+

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[skymama 37]

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hmmm, wrong shuttle

I realized that as I was driving 20 minutes later to my son's soccer game. Sorry about that...I was trying to do too many things at once.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[Michele 1]

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Try Mach 18.+

Yep. Missed the "1" in front of it...was a little distracted, and didn't get to proofread everything. I was taking things off the television as it was coming, and they hadn't gotten the numbers worked yet, so they had used mach 16...

Thanks for making sure the right info is here.

Ceils-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Hooknswoop 19]

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as far as i know they are only equiped for emergency procedures to fix the payload bay doors in case they wont close.

Right, contigency ops include manually closing the bay doors, manually bringing in the RMS, remote manipulator system (the arm), unbolting/cutting tubes on the external airlock, clearing jams from the doors, bringing in the antennea, unbolting the airlock door if it jams, etc. Witht he Spacehab module installed, I don't know if spacewalks were a possibility, because it is connected to the airlock. If the external airlock is installed, then they can still go outside with the Spacehab module installed. The A/L takes up a lot of room and weight, and is used for docking on the ISS, so it may not have been installed.

Hook


I do remember seeng on the Discovery channel, I think, a tool for replacing missing tiles on orbit w/ an orange-ish/red goop.

[cameramonkey 0]

Lets see if I can return to the thread in a productive nature...

CNN is now reporting an unoffical diagnosis of loss of heat shield material on the left wing. They elude to the item coming off the tank at launch could have knocked a tile or two loose.

they point to the computer adding trim to compensate for increasing levels of drag on the left side. One of the symptoms of loss of heat shield material is increased drag in that area.

Plus, they are now reporting an additional 30 seconds of "incorrect/unreadable/corrupted" data that continued to come in after the originally reported loss of contact.

They explained that they still continued to receive data from the orbiter for that "extra" last 30 seconds, but in that time frame the data coming down was not being transmitted correctly. Kinda like somebody knocking your stereo off the radio station by one notch. you can still hear some of what is being broadcast, but not clearly. They are currently examining the data packets by hand to try to interpret what was being broadcast, and if they can even translate it to useable data.

Also, they showed a spike of 15 degrees just prior to losing contact with some of the temperature sensors on the left side.

nothing official yet, but makes sense.

Two wrongs don't make a right, however three lefts DO!

[Snowwhite 0]

Wendy, thanks for the update to the forum. Please let all of your coworkers know that all of us appreciate all of them, and we know that they are going through a very difficult time right now. If there were anyway for us to take some of the burden from them, we would more than gladly do so.

skydiveTaylorville.org
freefallbeth@yahoo.com

[Push 0]

This is a tragedy. Of course, those people died doing what they love doing, and they understood that their job is dangerous, but this does not lessen the severity of what happened. This is one of the most, if not the most, deadly and dramatic accidents to hit the US space program. We can only hope that, unlike the Apollo I horror, death came quickly. My condolences to everyone involved.

To the Israelis, Ilan did not die in vain. Be proud of him, it's what he would want. Lehitraot, ahi, veshalom leha bashamaim.

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[suz 0]

I was at the DZ when I heard. It was early morning here when I found out. We dedicated the second load to the 7 that died.
I was watching the news last night and heard that one of the girls used to work in submarines. What a beautiful life she led. From one extreme to the other. God bless their souls.

*sends a kiss into space*

Don't bother me, I'm living happily ever after

[wmw999 2,555]

As a by-the-by, Ron Dittemore, the Houston shuttle program manager, is a real straight shooter and extremely sharp. I've been very impressed the times I've been in meetings with him (I had to brief him a couple of times on a project I was helping propose a few years ago), and I've been even more impressed with the news conferences I've heard him in yesterday and today. If you hear him in a press conference, you'll see what I mean. And I'm sure he's not the only one.

The unreadable etc. data is what's called ratty data. We get it all the time, when the shuttle is going in and out of a usable signal time. The ground computers collect it, but the variations are so wide that they treat it as unreliable (which it is). But it's still there, and there will be human eyes going over all of the frames of data available, trying to figure out what's a real signal, and what's a corruption.

There are a number of antennas under the skin of the orbiter that are used on entry and ascent; I don't know how they're managed at those times, since my software isn't running. But I'm quite sure there's some redundancy in the system.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[cameramonkey 0]

Oh, and I love how they have been dismissing the foam striking the orbiter as harmless.

Sorry folks, even a nerf bat travelling at mach 3 can take your head off... (maybe not literally, but its no longer harmless)

it isnt the size of the object, its the energy behind it. Look at the BB sized test projectiles they use to test impacts in space. they accelerate these things to impossible speeds, to the point they will almost go thru a 3 inch solid piece of aluminum.

amazing.

Two wrongs don't make a right, however three lefts DO!

[Michele 1]

Hi, Roy

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Oh, and I love how they have been dismissing the foam striking the orbiter as harmless.

I haven't heard them dismiss it; rather, there is a lot of speculation going on, and NASA is not necessarily going to indulge in it along with the rest. What I have heard is that they are taking this very seriously, and the foam damaging tile is being considered, but not as an only possiblity.

Like Wendy and then Phree have said so wonderfully, I'll wait until there is definitive results from NASA...and at 36 hours after the tragedy, there really isn't anything definitive yet.
Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[wmw999 2,555]

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Oh, and I love how they have been dismissing the foam striking the orbiter as harmless.

Sorry folks, even a nerf bat travelling at mach 3 can take your head off...

It hasn't been dismissed. It's not the only thing that's being focused on, either. A number of people spent a lot of hours analyzing it right after the tape where it was seen was reviewed. They considered a whole lot of things, including using satellites and high-powered telescopes to look at the tiles, and even an impromptu EVA. And other stuff that wasn't mentioned in the news conference too, I'm sure.

Tiles have been damaged in the past; they even fell off in one of the early flights (it was a running joke, while they worked on fixing it). It would have to be just the right tile.

There's a whole lot of information. If we focus in on one piece early because it looks promising, we stand a chance of missing something else significant. We don't have to hurry too much.

And while BB sized test projectiles can go very fast, they're also what the Vladiball is filled with, because they dissipate their energy when they fall apart.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[mouth 0]

Wendy,

I'm sure the past 2 days have been tough on you at best. {{{HUGS}}} to you and everyone who has worked so hard to make sure we don't miss the forest for the stupid tree right in front of our nose. Hang in there.

HUGS sweetie,

--
Hot Mama
At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit.

[leroydb 0]

wendy.... maybe I am the only one that dosen't know but I am curious to as what your job is?
Le Roy
ferret guy from eloy DEC boogie

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[billvon 3,084]

>Nasa should have aborted the launch THE MOMENT they saw the debris hit the wing..

The most immediate abort option they had at that time was RTLS, in which the shuttle continues out of the atmosphere, separates the SRB's, does a 180, thrusts back against its direction of flights, separates from the ET in a nose-down position, then pulls up and starts a landing pattern for the runway at Canaveral. That's never been tested; you'd have to have a really catastrophic failure for it to be attempted (like a loss of cabin integrity, making even a short stay on orbit too dangerous to attempt.)

Also, keep in mind that they don't always have video coverage, and often it takes hours of freeze-framing to even see what happened to begin with. And even if you did see it (i.e. the Challenger O-ring blowout) there is often nothing that you can do that does not put the crew in even more danger.