Stilletto v. Sabre 2 (or Pilot) for swooping

[brierebecca 0]

I have a question that is kinda like the question posted for the Pilot v. Sabre 2 dilemma. However, my question is more closely related to swoop progressions. I jump a Stilletto 107, and it's a lot of fun. What does everyone think? Would a Sabre 2 (or a Pilot) be a better canopy to learn under?

Thanks,
Brie

"Ive seen you hump air, hump the floor of the plane, and hump legs. You now have a new nickname: "Black Humper of Death"--yardhippie

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

I know it isn't on your list, but the Samurai is a great canopy that probably has what you're looking for in terms of a long recovery arc. It also has light riser pressure and imo is just an all around nice canopy. I haven't flown the Katana, but I have read that it is even more divey and hp than the Sam. I think you should try the Sam out. If you're low on cash, a used Jedei might be something to consider as well.

I have not swooped a Sabre II, but I have been told they have a longer recovery arc than the Stiletto as well, but since you're already on an elliptical you might want to consider others that are out there.

jmo:) Good luck, if you do get on the Sabre II i'd be curious to hear if it dives well for you.

-A

[billvon 3,112]

Hey, another Sabre2/Pilot thread! I swear, we need a FAQ.

If you're going to be getting into swooping, neither canopy is great due to their recovery arcs. The Sabre 2 has a slightly longer arc (good for setup) the Pilot has a slightly deeper/stronger flare (good for planeout, digging out of the corner and learning control in the flare.) If learning to swoop is your thing, I'd recommend something along the lines of a larger Nitro/Nitron, which has a much longer arc but is still pretty well behaved. You might also consider an appropriately sized Crossfire 2. (Make sure you get the 2, the Crossfire 1 sucks.) It's not as aggressive as a Katana or Velocity, but still lets you learn a lot about swooping.

[vdschoor 0]

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Would a Sabre 2 (or a Pilot) be a better canopy to learn under?

Thanks,
Brie

I think this is a personal thing, demo the Sabre2 and Pilot and make up your own mind about them.

I have a Sabre2 150 myself, and I am demoing a Stiletto 135 right now.
Last weekend I jumped a Sabre2 135 and I was impressed! That canopy dives more, and longer, and it swoops further than the Stiletto (at least with my limited experience it seemed that way)

So now I am torn, do I go with the Sabre2 135 or Stiletto 135...
I am the same way about the Stiletto... I don't particularly care about the short recovery arc.. it's already short on the Sabre2, why go even shorter?

Iwan

[ianmdrennan 2]

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So now I am torn, do I go with the Sabre2 135 or Stiletto 135...

I recently had the opportunity to spend some time with Ian Bobo to ask him this very question. He's response to me was Sabre2 -> Katana -> Velocity. There are simply better options than the stiletto now. Jay has said the same thing to me. So from my point of view, there you have it.

Whether the pilot is a good alternative, I simply don't know I've never jumped one. As has been mentioned, Brie, demo both and see which one you prefer.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[VectorBoy 0]

Quote

Hey, another Sabre2/Pilot thread! I swear, we need a FAQ.

If you're going to be getting into swooping, neither canopy is great due to their recovery arcs. The Sabre 2 has a slightly longer arc (good for setup) the Pilot has a slightly deeper/stronger flare (good for planeout, digging out of the corner and learning control in the flare.) If learning to swoop is your thing, I'd recommend something along the lines of a larger Nitro/Nitron, which has a much longer arc but is still pretty well behaved. You might also consider an appropriately sized Crossfire 2. (Make sure you get the 2, the Crossfire 1 sucks.) It's not as aggressive as a Katana or Velocity, but still lets you learn a lot about swooping.

Bill does size and wingloading of a canopy play a role in recovery arc?

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

I'm not Bill, but from personal experience I can tell you that wingloading and canopy size absolutely do play a part.

I would just like to say that it's pretty fascinating to me that anyone would consider a Stilletto unsuitable for swooping. It is still a very high performance canopy for someone with under 500 jumps. I cringe when I see low-experience jumpers under even lightly loaded ST's. That said, the fact that it has a shorter recover arc than some other canopies in no way shape or form detracts from one's ability to perform HP landings under it. I can promise you that with someone with under 500 jumps has not possibly exploited a Stilletto to it's full potential.

FWIW, I think a Sabre2 is a great all around canopy and you can absolutely swoop the piss out of them. Mine, in my wingsuit rig, is a 97.

Chuck

[ianmdrennan 2]

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it's pretty fascinating to me that anyone would consider a Stilletto unsuitable for swooping.

Hey Chuck. I had a chance to talk to Ian and Jay about this. Basically they feel (and I agree with them) that the Stilletto doesn't have some of the characteristics of the newer models - Longer recovery arc, longer toggle stroke, etc). I don't believe for a second they meant it's not a good swooping canopy, but rather that they felt there are BETTER options now available for swooping for both beginners and advanced pilots.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[billvon 3,112]

> Bill does size and wingloading of a canopy play a role in recovery arc?

Definitely! A more heavily loaded canopy will have a longer recovery arc.

(SM1 said:)
>That said, the fact that it has a shorter recover arc than some other
> canopies in no way shape or form detracts from one's ability to perform
> HP landings under it.

I agree; but for someone learning HP landings, I think the longer recovery arc might give them the extra room to bail on a botched initiation. The shorter the arc, the more accuracy you need.

[AggieDave 6]

Whoa.

A Crossfire2 is not as agressive as a Katana?

From everything I've read they're right on par with each other, each has its good trends and bad, but they're on the same level of performance. i.e. highest performance non-crossbraced 9-cells available.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[billvon 3,112]

>A Crossfire2 is not as agressive as a Katana?

In my experience, a Katana is trimmed a little more steeply than the Crossfire, and has a slightly longer arc. The Crossfire opens better though.

>highest performance non-crossbraced 9-cells available.

Well, there's the problem of "high performance" definition again. I think the Nitro is a better performing all around canopy, but it doesn't swoop as well as a Katana. The Crossfire 2 is slightly better than the Nitro when it comes to swooping.

[AggieDave 6]

I would have a very hard time recommending someone to jump a Crossfire2 if I didn't think they were ready for a Katana as well...that was my point, sorry, wasn't trying to imply some sort of pissing match between the canopies.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[lewmonst 0]

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>A Crossfire2 is not as agressive as a Katana?

In my experience, a Katana is trimmed a little more steeply than the Crossfire, and has a slightly longer arc. The Crossfire opens better though.

Having a couple hundred jumps on both at the same w/l, I agree. I would say though that the difference in recovery arc is more than "slightly". CF2's get back from a long spot easier and opens better, but the Katana dives longer. In neutral flight (no toggle or riser input), the CF2 is not as ground hungry as a Katana. That's why I'd agree.

Not to tangent from the topic at hand, I've seen some great pilots pull off nice long swoops on Sabre2's.

peace
lew

http://www.exitshot.com