gjhdiver 0 #26 December 23, 2004 Quote Quote What are your thoughts on Standard Stainless vs. Delux? On a Wings the Standard stainless means only the three rings are stainless, Deluxe means all the hardware. If you're gonna spend the money to look bling bling, go all the way. In standard, the hip rings are also stainless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #27 December 23, 2004 Quote its all about the looks (unless you routinely dip your rig in saltwater) Another problem is that on some rigs, the stainless on the leg straps does not grip very well. Not any more. Most manufaturers now use use a gated stainless leg starp adaptor that doesn't slip. I've got thousands of jumps on mine and they have never slipped at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #28 December 23, 2004 Quote Quote Gawd forbid that someone who has spent 30 to 40 thousnad dolars on equipment, 25 thousand on the TSO process, pays payrolls of many thousnads of dollars a week, and stocks 10's of thousansands of dollars in inventory, make a profit. Geeezz.... Wings is one of the cheepest containers avaliable and you guys are beating them up about their profit on Stainless? And rightly so. Regardless of what their overheads maybe, the capital outlay for a container, is for MOST people a very expensive proposition, being concerned about value for money is something that I personally take seriously Which is why Wings allows you to choose whether you tick that box or not. If you think it's too expensive, then just don't get it. It's part of the philosophy of Sunrise. You get to start with a low base price and add exactly what you want. You're not forced into having stainless as part of the rig. All the bling can add up for someone on a budget. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #29 December 23, 2004 Embroidery, for example, I expect to be expensive, a lot of extra value-added labor involved. If I get a hook knife option on a rig, we know the mark-up on this option is actually very low (typically around $25 for high quality aluminum knives that sell by themselves for about $20, and that includes extra work of maybe a little pocket stiching & snap). So why is it that different 'pass thru' parts should get different treatment for the amount of mark-up? Because they can. I am not inclined to pay so much for stainless on my rig, so I benefit from the current pricing structure. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peterk 0 #30 December 23, 2004 Damn, how quickly some people want to misunderstand the internet so they can start posting sh*t all over the place. I am all about the manufacturers making money on add-ons. And it is a great idea that you can choose it if you want, the add-on price is right there- take it or leave it. A crappy GM CD player isn't worth $750, but some people want it. Good for them... The part that annoyed me, and the part that you can't deny, is that it does NOT cost $195 extra for the manufacturers to add stainless, and that is why they charge $200. And those prices that I found are for me to buy one or two, I would imagine that the manufacturers buy a couple at a time, and get a price break. Don't get all huffy puffy on the internet, change your story depending on the posts above your last post, or just rant to show how smart you are. Accept that you can either get the stainless or not, that is the price, take it or leave it, and pay the articulation for $150 when it is just two small rings and about 10 minutes more of work... Deal with it, or get the FAA out of it so I can just make my own gear and not have to involve all the FAA TSOs that make skydiving so friggin expensive that I have just about stopped...--------------- Peter BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #31 December 23, 2004 Wow, calm down. Sounds like you are getting huffy puffy yourself. So they are making money on the stainless? Good for them and their business. No matter how much is cost for them to buy, they found that people will buy it at inflated prices. Sounds like capitalism to me.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #32 December 23, 2004 Quote Which is why Wings allows you to choose whether you tick that box or not. If you think it's too expensive, then just don't get it. It's part of the philosophy of Sunrise. You get to start with a low base price and add exactly what you want. You're not forced into having stainless as part of the rig. All the bling can add up for someone on a budget. I think the bulk of the question being asked is merely why the markup on this particular option is so high, relative to most. If those numbers were on target, it would seem that Sunrise (and the others) make as much profit on the stainless option as they do on the entire rig. It doesn't offend me, just curious. Living in a low humidity region, I found the articulation option well worth it, but passed on the SS. The overall price was great, and more so in that Wings was my choice from a comfort standpoint even before I found it is one of the cheaper containers available. If the current market's love of stainless helped subsidize me, I thank you all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #33 December 23, 2004 I wonder how much it would cost if you provided your own hardware to the manufacturer? It's the same hardware so there should be no trouble with that option.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peterk 0 #34 December 23, 2004 I really don't care, and I don't get huffy-puffy about internet stuff. I am too busy jumping to care what is happening in virtual worlds. And I am completely for supply and demand. What does annoy me, is when "internet experts" say one thing, which is completely false, but when someone else does about 2 minutes of research, they completely reverse their opinion... I don't have time or energy to keep things in check... Example: Formerly working for a manufacturer, and being in the industry for a *few* years, I can tell you that the cost from the suppliers is that much higher. No one is really getting rich from Stainless upgrades. And if you think producing stainless hardware, or the raw stainless it's manufactured from is cheep, you're ill informed. ---------- Then... ---------- Gawd forbid that someone who has spent 30 to 40 thousnad dolars on equipment, 25 thousand on the TSO process, pays payrolls of many thousnads of dollars a week, and stocks 10's of thousansands of dollars in inventory, make a profit. Geeezz.... xxxx is one of the cheepest containers avaliable and you guys are beating them up about their profit on Stainless? I am all for them making extra money from those that can and are willing to pay for it, just don't use your "expert status" on dz.com to say that they are scraping by offering the stainless upgrades with little or no profit from the goodness of their hearts... And again, I don't care. Stainless is the last option that I would want on my current rigs. But I am bored at work, getting hungry, etc... Smile, and carry on....--------------- Peter BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #35 December 23, 2004 More importantly, why have no current manufacturers piped up in this thread about it? I mean, I still bought the stainless, but I would be interested to hear why it is so expensive.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peterk 0 #36 December 23, 2004 Why would the manufacturers have to post? They are making profit from it. Just like GM charges $1500 for crappy non-steel rims on cars that cost about $250. There will always be more profit on add-ons, stainess and articulation... And it is all good. And I allow them to... This whole thing started becuase someone wanted to know if they thought everyone on the internet would think stainless would look cool on their new rig...--------------- Peter BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #37 December 23, 2004 Automotive accessories purchased from the dealer are widely accepted as having incredibly high mark-ups. The only thing I wish to see is that the stainless be recognized for the same thing. Some other options/add-ons are not treated the same (my hook knife example). Part of having capitalism work is to have an educated consumer putting market forces to bear. As more people recognize stainless as way overpriced, and the mfgs become aware of this, the pricing structure might change. Again, I am benefitting from the current pricing structure, as others have said, my rig is way cheaper because so many are willing to be raped off by choosing stainless.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #38 December 24, 2004 Quote I wonder how much it would cost if you provided your own hardware to the manufacturer? It's the same hardware so there should be no trouble with that option. One of the biggest part of a TSO in materials and component traceablity. FAA-Part-21 Quote § 21.143 Quality control data requirements; prime manufacturer. (a) Each applicant must submit, for approval, data describing the inspection and test procedures necessary to ensure that each article produced conforms to the type design and is in a condition for safe operation, including as applicable— (1) A statement describing assigned responsibilities and delegated authority of the quality control organization, together with a chart indicating the functional relationship of the quality control organization to management and to other organizational components, and indicating the chain of authority and responsibility within the quality control organization; (2) A description of inspection procedures for raw materials, purchased items, and parts and assemblies produced by manufacturers' suppliers including methods used to ensure acceptable quality of parts and assemblies that cannot be completely inspected for conformity and quality when delivered to the prime manufacturer's plant; (3) A description of the methods used for production inspection of individual parts and complete assemblies, including the identification of any special manufacturing processes involved, the means used to control the processes, the final test procedure for the complete product, and, in the case of aircraft, a copy of the manufacturer's production flight test procedures and checkoff list; SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #39 December 24, 2004 If you buy the hardware from DJ Associates like everyone else, get the bin number, have it either dropshipped to the manufacturer, or take possession and ship it all to the manufacturer yourself, it's traceable right? I'm just curious. Additionally I have some Real RW8's and some 444's ( the replacement to RW8's) I have 3 sets of Stainless RW8's which is enough to make one fully articulated harness. (depending on the manufacturer). Would the manufacturer be able to use the parts?My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #40 December 24, 2004 Quote If you buy the hardware from DJ Associates like everyone else, get the bin number, have it either dropshipped to the manufacturer, or take possession and ship it all to the manufacturer yourself, it's traceable right? I'm just curious. Additionally I have some Real RW8's and some 444's ( the replacement to RW8's) I have 3 sets of Stainless RW8's which is enough to make one fully articulated harness. (depending on the manufacturer). Would the manufacturer be able to use the parts? I don't think so. They need to be able to trace the material, thread, part back to its source manufacture, and if I remember right, it all has to have certs. from the source stating it is manufactured to so and so spec. But if you get your Master ticket you can build your own harness/container and jump it yourself. At least thats what I been told. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #41 December 24, 2004 Quote Example: Formerly working for a manufacturer, and being in the industry for a *few* years, I can tell you that the cost from the suppliers is that much higher. No one is really getting rich from Stainless upgrades. And if you think producing stainless hardware, or the raw stainless it's manufactured from is cheep, you're ill informed. ---------- Then... ---------- Gawd forbid that someone who has spent 30 to 40 thousnad dolars on equipment, 25 thousand on the TSO process, pays payrolls of many thousnads of dollars a week, and stocks 10's of thousansands of dollars in inventory, make a profit. Geeezz.... xxxx is one of the cheepest containers avaliable and you guys are beating them up about their profit on Stainless? I am all for them making extra money from those that can and are willing to pay for it, just don't use your "expert status" on dz.com to say that they are scraping by offering the stainless upgrades with little or no profit from the goodness of their hearts... And again, I don't care. Stainless is the last option that I would want on my current rigs. But I am bored at work, getting hungry, etc... Smile, and carry on.... Smile yourself and settle down. Neither of those statements are in conflict.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #42 December 24, 2004 Quote I am about to place an order for a new Wings Container... Got all the details worked out. I just have not decided if I am going to get Stainless or not. Seems to be a lot of extra money.... What are the reasons it is worth the money? Any thoughs on Delux or Standard? Thanks Ken Back to the original question. Standard hip rings tend to make your webbing "creak and squeak" when you walk, move, bend over. Sounds like someone moving around on a leather saddle. Stainless rings are shinier and quieter. No difference in safety or performance. I've got stainless on my rigs 'cause my wife buys them for me, but I'd be fine without. And yes, I'm glad rig manufacturers and DZs make money. Otherwise I couldn't skydive. Anyone who wants to run a skydiving charity is free to go down the road and try it. If you get a nice plane and prices are right, I'll probably show up to jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #43 December 25, 2004 Quote If you buy the hardware from DJ Associates like everyone else, get the bin number, have it either dropshipped to the manufacturer, or take possession and ship it all to the manufacturer yourself, it's traceable right? I'm just curious. As a QA Inspector myself (although not with this industry, but QA is QA), the quick answer to that is 'NO'... For QA materials to be transfered the proper paperwork must follow it, and new paperwork is generated which allows traceability in that transfer.. To generate such paperwork, you have to have certain QA certifications and I'm assuming that you do not. FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #44 December 25, 2004 Quote To generate such paperwork, you have to have certain QA certifications and I'm assuming that you do not. You are correct sir. Thanks for the answer. That makes perfect sense. When a manufacturer recieves goods from DJ Asociates, it comes with the bin number the product came from, because of that, it technically is traceable should the manufacturer choose to accept the reciept. I was just wondering since I could provide the reciept of goods. Thanks again.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
