Careful with the border guards....

[JerryBaumchen 1,451]

Hi jimmy,

+++++1

I travelled over so many borders back when I was still working that I thought my job title was Border Rat.

JerryBaumchen

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Quote

...it is NOT the 'border guards' who are the issue... it is the way that the traveling public chooses to interact with them....

peace.

jmy

Mostly but not always.

I drive truck and cross between Canada and the US on a semi-regular basis.
I don't know how differently commercial drivers are treated, as opposed to "regular" civilians, but I rarely have any problems.

I'm polite and answer all questions with a "sir" or "ma'am". I also answer quickly and clearly.

Most of the customs folks are decent, some are quite funny, and a few are dicks.
Maybe they are having a bad day, maybe the guy before me was a jerk, maybe they are just jerks.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[hackish 8]

I inspected the rig fully and there were no additional issues. So I was happy with that.

For the most part I've been lucky getting ex-military border guards - some of whom have done at least a few static line jumps and seem to have an appreciation for what we like to do. When my new rig comes in from UPT I think I may just put my primary canopy in my backup rig for trips.

-Michael

[skybill 22]

Quote

Actually, you'd lose that bet, because I do work with other people who are members of the non-whuffo population.

Frankly, I don't see why you have to be so hostile to me. I was simply presenting another side to the story. I didn't get snippy with any one here, and even managed to remain civil to you after you insulted me.

I feel like this thread is beginning to get off-base a bit. I don't think this is the appropriate place on this site to spout hostile comments about the agency or its practices. That is what the speakers corner is for.

Hi Tiger,
"Poor baby!!" If yer job sucks so much why don't you get a different job?? You like to "inspect things" so why not get yer riggers' ticket and have at it!! Besides Sport rigging the Aerospace side of the business is very lucrative and interesting!! I worked for Douglas Aircraft and Irvin Aerospace 7-3:30 5 days a week , climate controlled work enviorn., great perks, 401K, "WEEKENDS AND HOLLIDAZE OFF 2 GO SKYDIVE" even got off early enough in summer to get out to Elsinore and Perris to get a Wednesday aftn Hop or two!!, and did I say Good Pay!!

Meanwhile back at the ranch, when you get off yer shift and stop at ye' ole' local warterin' hole and have a smoke n' a cold beer ya' sit there at the bar an' unwind, thinkin' and singin'.....

"Smugglers to the left of me,
Rum Runners to the right of me,
and here I am, stuck in the middle with you!!!!!"

PS, Also, ya' kin put a quarter in da juke box an play Don Henleys' "Smugglers Bluze!!!"

"Keep smilin' it makes people wonder what ya' been up to???"

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[aheavenlytiger 0]

Hackish- I'm very happy that everything worked out for you in the end. Hopefully future border crossings will be easier

I don't want to address the additional negative comments posted with much other than with this- I'm pretty certain that nowhere within this thread was any mention made of my being discontent with my job. I work the overnight tour because I requested to do so and have being working if for several years. I don't have to hope for a day to get out of work early enough to go skydive. I can go on any day I like after work (all day long if I see fit), still get several hours of sleep and go into work for the next day. In fact, I think I may do just that after a quick morning nap today. No need to drive in rush hour traffic if I can sleep through it instead

[VAPA 0]

Pardon the thread bump. For those interested, this is good reading concerning the video of the military guy going through the checkpoint.

http://www.veteransagainstpoliceabuse.org/TotheBorderPatrol.aspx

[KevinP 0]

Quote

http://www.veteransagainstpoliceabuse.org/TotheBorderPatrol.aspx

What a complete puss. He deserved to be yanked out of that vehicle and rolled up. I hope he is out of the military by now. He has clearly never worked a checkpoint in his young life.

Sincerely,
Kevin

[Throttlebender 0]

I love it when people protest those stops. I think they're completely bogus. "Are you a US citizen." "Yes." Ok then, have a nice day."

What the Hell is that supposed to do for security? It's really about profiling and "white" people get a casual glance, a quick question to satisfy job requirements, and then on their way. But if someone doesn't go along with this, it turns into a power issue.
Good for those that exercise their right not to conform.

Life expands or contracts in proportion to one's courage. ~Anais Nin

[KevinP 0]

At the risk of stirring up a hornet's nest, I'll speak my mind.

As a soldier, when I deploy, I expect, no, I demand a certain reaction to my authority. If I tell Joe Iraqi to step back and he doesn't, he is probably going to be staring down the barrel of my M4 VERY shortly after he refuses. Why am I like this? My LIFE depends on it. And the lives of the soldiers to my right and left.

Now, how does that apply to a United States person legally traveling from one location to another inside of the borders of the US? It's easy, at least to me. I put my life on the line when I deploy. Border Patrol agents put their lives on the line EVERY day they go to work, as seen in the recent example of Agent Brian Terry. How do they increase their chances of going home safe? Their hands are held tighter than a deployed soldier. They have to act according to their own organization's guidelines. Whether CPT America in the video was a random stop or if they had suspicion, he acted inappropriately. The easiest and quickest way to get away from a situation like that is to comply. So it takes five minutes. Who CARES! It's an OLD movie, but I think Jack Nicholson's character COL Jessup (in A Few Good Men) said it best:

"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to. "

Sincerely,
Kevin

[Throttlebender 0]

That's the point. He had no need to comply. It's called The Constitution. Free Legal Member of society....not second class citizen to be subjected to the whims of ANY govt agency. Especially in this situation where it is obviously an expectation that we should shut up and comply. Ridiculous.

When people begin to meekly "comply" to govt demands, we slowly begin to be stripped of the very things that have historically made this a great place to live.
And that movie quote is a prime example of the problem. You're not necessarily better than the American standing next to you in line at the grocery merely because you chose to make soldiering your profession. Neither is the border guard. In some cases it's quite an honorable profession but it doesn't place you above anything. "Comply?" Why? Because you said so? That's how tyranny takes hold around the world.
I don't carry an M4 but in my job I do things that help to ensure the freedoms of this nation and I would never be so arrogant in making a statement like the one you so proudly quoted.

And moderators, feel free to move these comments or delete them.

Life expands or contracts in proportion to one's courage. ~Anais Nin

[KevinP 0]

Don't misunderstand me. I certainly don't think I am better than anyone. Quite the contrary. I serve my country with humility and consider it an honor. And I have put my life on the line several times, and will several times more if need be, in service to the Constitution and as a result am intimately familiar with it.

I am not suggesting that anyone within our borders "meekly 'comply.'" But where is the line? If that same "military officer" were driving down the highway and a state trooper activated his lights behind him, should he not stop? That's compliance. What's the difference between stopping for a SHP Officer and exiting the vehicle for a BP Agent? I am actually more upset with the individual. If it were Joe Public, then I wouldn't have cared. But the individual in the the video claims to be in the military. That being the case, I hold him to a higher standard. He should be more compliant and far more professional than he showed himself to be.

And I quoted the movie, not because I agreed with the character's motivations or methods, but because I do feel that "We the People" are far too easily offended by those entrusted with our safety.

EDITED: B/C I had a misspelling and I hate that.

Sincerely,
Kevin

[MorfiusX 0]

Quote

But where is the line?

I think the answer to that is pretty simple: The Constitution. As long as we are talking about a US citizen on US soil (or returning to US soil), then the constitution supersedes all laws and government regulations.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

[KevinP 0]

I agree with that completely, but I have to ask what constitutional law or right was violated when the dude in the video was asked to step out of his car. While I don't know what happened afterward, if he wasn't detained or searched, I don't see any violation at all. Cops do it frequently, don't they? I was stopped once for going to slow and the cop gave me a field sobriety test. I was totally sober (turns out the car was on it's way out and didn't want to finish the hill with any gusto). Perhaps the car the "military officer" was driving matched the description of one reported stolen. You get out, provide proof of ownership with a valid ID and you are on your way. We could "what if" this thing to death. Still, based on the ten or so minutes I saw on the video that was presented, it is my opinion that he was trying to incite for the camera.

And look, here I am getting wrapped around the axle about it.

Sincerely,
Kevin

[MorfiusX 0]

One version of the video has the VAPA notes that summarize their argument that the citizens fourth amendment rights were violated. They argue that checkpoint procedures were not followed. The first link is the video with notes. The second link is more information.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meGJ0Wiou3U
http://www.veteransagainstpoliceabuse.org/TotheBorderPatrol.aspx

[KevinP 0]

I have read it and watched it, as well as refreshing myself on the 4th Amendment. It's my opinion that they were both contributory. I can see where the BPA abused his position and authority, but I can also see where the "upstanding" driver made it worse than it could have been. I go through BPA CPs weekly. When I approach, I have my window all the way down and my military ID at arms length out of the window in a presentation position. I have never even been slowed down.

Maybe next time, I'll try to play cool with my window down only a couple of inches and see what happens. I suppose I'll have to get them tinted first. I want to duplicate the conditions as closely as I can.

Sincerely,
Kevin

[billvon 3,090]

Please take political discussions to SC.

[IanHarrop 42]

Quote

Please take political discussions to SC.

I am at a loss as to why this whole thread is in Skydiving: Safety and Training:

What has this got to do with Skydiving? Should it not be in SC?

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[billvon 3,090]

>What has this got to do with Skydiving?

"Maybe the USPA could get involved with homeland security and work on a published SOP of them when dealing with parachutes during a border (non-airport) search."

That's a valid issue to discuss here, provided it does not devolve to political arguments.