SkymonkeyONE 4 #51 October 21, 2004 I have found that latex surgical gloves under any other glove will, in fact, keep my hands much warmer on a very-cold skydive, but only if used properly. If you put them on at takeoff then your hands are going to get wet from sweat, then they are going to super-cool in freefall and you will be worse off. When I do use them, I only put them on right before exit. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craichead 0 #52 October 21, 2004 QuoteA wetsuit traps this warm water and does not let it transfer the heat to the surrounding water..Thereby keeping you warm. Thin surgical latex also traps water. Your body heats that trapped water. That heated water isn't being transferred to the surrounding water or the cold air. By your explanation, a thin layer of latex next to your skin would would work equally as well as neoprene. Are you saying that neoprene has no insulative (is that a word?) properties without the presence of moisture? _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #53 October 21, 2004 QuoteThin surgical latex also traps water. Your body heats that trapped water. That heated water isn't being transferred to the surrounding water or the cold air. By your explanation, a thin layer of latex next to your skin would would work equally as well as neoprene. Are you saying that neoprene has no insulative (is that a word?) properties without the presence of moisture? If you took out the windchill factor. And I did say you need an insulator. Edit to add: Try this experiment. Put on a pair of latex gloves inside in the noramal temp...Did your hands get hot?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craichead 0 #54 October 21, 2004 I think a better experiment would be to stand outside in sub-freezing temperatures. One hand has a latex glove on, the other a neoprene glove on. _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #55 October 21, 2004 QuoteI think a better experiment would be to stand outside in sub-freezing temperatures. One hand has a latex glove on, the other a neoprene glove on. Sorry in FL we don't tend to have sub-freezing temps...Hurricanes yes, freezing temps no. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craichead 0 #56 October 21, 2004 QuoteSorry in FL we don't tend to have sub-freezing temps...Hurricanes yes, freezing temps no. Hmm, I'd rather take freezing temps over hurricanes. But then again, we have a lot of tornadoes here in IL. In any case...neoprene does not insulate on trapping moisture alone. If it did, latex would perform just like neoprene in really cold water as well as in really cold air. Neoprene, by its nature, is a good insulator because of the tiny bubbles in it that trap air, which is also a good insulator. It insulates in a number of ways (thickness of material, minimized water exchange, minimized heat exchange). Surgical latex doesn't have all those properties, and that's one of many reasons why we don't wear surgical latex gloves in the winter for everyday use. Mainly just because it isn't very fashionable (in most circles). I imagine that neoprene gloves would work pretty well for winter gloves on moderately cold days because it retains body heat by trapping warm moisture AND warm air. If latex performed just as well as neoprene...we would have latex beer condoms instead of neoprene beer coozies, right? _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #57 October 21, 2004 QuoteI think a better experiment would be to stand outside in sub-freezing temperatures. One hand has a latex glove on, the other a neoprene glove on. No it wouldn’t. That wouldn’t test the different effects of wind chill on hands in a sealed system and hands exposed to the air. Remember – neoprene is effectively a thick air-filled rubber layer… barring seams its essentially the same as a rubber glove + insulation when it comes to wind chill. The best experiment would be to put 1 hand with latex and 1 hand without into 120mph wind for 1 minute followed by 15 – 50 mph wind for 5 – 10 minutes with a gradually increasing air temperature, starting off below freezing. If you did that you’d see the effect of wind chill on hands within and without of a sealed environment. No one is saying that neoprene is no good – the only comment about it was that it was it’s wind stopping quality was at least equally important if not [I]more[/I] important than its ability to insulation against the ambient temperature. I’m not really sure what you’re arguing with about who’s post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #58 October 21, 2004 QuoteIf latex performed just as well as neoprene...we would have latex beer condoms instead of neoprene beer coozies, right? No one's saying they do. They are only the same when it comes to preventing wind chill. Wind chill is one of the biggest factors in getting cold skydiving because we are exposed to comparatively massive ammounts of wind. Latex gloves are not great on their own but can be good way of adding insulation to other gloves - the don't insulate against ambient temperature but do insulate against wind chill. Removing that 1 factor lessens the cold but does nothing to effect the other factors. They can't be the whole answer but can be part of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craichead 0 #59 October 21, 2004 QuoteI’m not really sure what you’re arguing with about who’s post. I'm arguing Ron's claim that neoprene insulates by trapping and warming moisture alone. Read his explanation on how neoprene insulates. QuoteRemember – neoprene is effectively a thick air-filled rubber layer… barring seams its essentially the same as a rubber glove + insulation when it comes to wind chill. See, you get that neoprene provides insulation by trapping heated water AND heated air. _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pertierr 0 #60 October 22, 2004 I'm also currently looking for some gloves, and I happen to come by a black set of the airforce pilot gloves at a local surplus store. They have leather on the bottom and some neoprene-like stuff on the back. Anyone tried these before? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #61 October 22, 2004 QuoteI'm arguing Ron's claim that neoprene insulates by trapping and warming moisture alone. Read his explanation on how neoprene insulates. Yeah, read my posts...About how neoprene insulates in SCUBA diving. Very little air in neoprene when you are SCUBA diving."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #62 October 23, 2004 QuoteQuoteI'm arguing Ron's claim that neoprene insulates by trapping and warming moisture alone. Read his explanation on how neoprene insulates. Yeah, read my posts...About how neoprene insulates in SCUBA diving. Very little air in neoprene when you are SCUBA diving. You guys are both right, and both wrong. Heat loss through conduction v. heat loss through convection. The air bubbles in neoprene get compressed the deeper you go, but they're still there. Now in Florida you might be using a really thin wetsuit, but it still insulates a bit. You probably do get more of your heat savings by minimizing the water exchange. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #63 October 23, 2004 QuoteThis is a great opportunity to take ideas from other sports. We don't have to reinvent the wheel for every problem. All "sport" gloves are designed to wick moisture away. Other sports do not expose their gloved hands to a 120+ mph wind. They also have to deal with a far greater time period then skydivers. I go to 30,000 on a regular basis, it is always -40 F or lower. I wear silk glove liners, $20.00, under a pair of Nike batting gloves, $15.00 on sale. For the ride up I wear a pair of insulated M/C gauntlets or that and keep my hands close to my body and away from the skin of the A/C. Just before exit I take the M/C gloves off and leave them in the airplane. I have seen many jumper use the latex glove liner set up with good results for years. I think what is important is what works for you and your budget. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #64 October 23, 2004 This is the Sienfield Thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #65 October 23, 2004 QuoteThis is the Sienfield Thread. You have a sharp eye for things "Sienfield". How goes the Speedo wars? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
