People with kids vs people without.

[GD64 1]

Nataly

Nothing is fair in life and the fact is that for every person who works/pays less there are people working harder/paying more to compensate.

If everyone paid only their "fair share" for what was directly applicable to them, few people would be able to afford having kids, becoming ill, losing their partner, et cetera, et cetera. I don't think that would be a better system than the current (albeit flawed) redistribution of wealth...

Nataly....I agree "nothing is fair in life" and I know tomorrow is not promised to anyone. My point was to suggest a multi-tied system that would take into account the childless people. Not the elimination of paying into (which many childless feel would be " fair") the system. It would not be realistic, and would be not very considerate to the rest of a society as a whole.

My agreement with "stumps" suggestion to start your own business was to help "soften" at least some of the real imbalances dollar wise, mentioned by other posters, as well recognizing that a business pays property taxes, income taxes, state and local taxes, assessments for infrastructure , licensees, and fees that find there way into the "collective pool" whether owner/s are childless or not.

I personally believe if two people (same/same), who are mentally and physically doing the same job and one produces more, quality control equal and all that, the higher producer should be compensated more (whatever form that takes $, vay-cay, higher position in company, etc.)

Nataly, I think a lot of what we are saying about helping our fellow humans is the same. What we may disagree on is amounts, or degrees, and how the disbursement is handled. Perhaps that could be part of cultural differences, or how we were raised, or own personal differing life's experiences, etc..

[champu 1]

GD64

What always catches my attention in a not so positive way, involves reading your property tax statements.

Yeah try not to do that, it's bad for your blood pressure.

Also, I'll be sending you a bill for that advice, but don't read it either (again, blood pressure.)

[grue 1]

jimjumper

The military found this out a long time ago. There are members now that have sham marriages so as to get the pay and benefits of a married couple.

…and to this I ask, why the hell should a couple have to get married for health insurance benefits?

cavete terrae.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

grue

***The military found this out a long time ago. There are members now that have sham marriages so as to get the pay and benefits of a married couple.

…and to this I ask, why the hell should a couple have to get married for health insurance benefits?

Because not having them is expensive?

I know a couple that were engaged to be married, had the wedding planned and everything.
Big wedding was set for fall.

In March the guy lost his job...

And his insurance.

He had an ongoing medical issue. One of those "Pre-existing conditions."

If he went without coverage for any amount of time, he would have been uninsurable.
To keep his (then) current coverage via COBRA, it would have been more than they could afford.
They had to get him on her coverage. Which could only be done if they were married.

So they had a very small, quiet ceremony in March. Only a handful of people knew that they were married for the entire summer.

And then they had the big, planned "wedding" in the fall. It was a wonderful event.

Nothing "sham" about their marriage or love or any of that. They've been married over 15 years now.

But they "had to" get married right away when it happened.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[billvon 3,114]

>Example, my girlfriend works in an office and if a co worker has to leave early or misses a day because
>of something to do with their kid, she is stuck working late and picking up their slack.

Right. And when your girlfriend takes a vacation, the guy with the kid has to work late and pick up the slack. That's what paid time off is for.

>It will never happen but I see it as only fair that people without kids get an extra week or so of paid
>vacation to make up for getting screwed earlier in the year. Thoughts? Comments?

I'm thinking everyone should just get some paid time off, and then use it however they want.

Personally I've been working at the same company for ~20 years now. For the first 17 I didn't have any kids. I took a lot of vacation - boogies, Nationals, records etc. Now I have kids and I take less vacation. So in my case I should get "extra" now. (Not really an issue since I get enough vacation time for my needs.)

[GD64 1]

champu

***What always catches my attention in a not so positive way, involves reading your property tax statements.

Yeah try not to do that, it's bad for your blood pressure.

Also, I'll be sending you a bill for that advice, but don't read it either (again, blood pressure.)

champu.......damn, just when I thought I could get through a holiday with limited outgo a consulting fee shows up. I could tell by your pic (camera and all) it was not going to be cheap. I know, I know the "advice" is priceless......that's what they all say. I'm in the wrong racket

[grue 1]

wolfriverjoe

******The military found this out a long time ago. There are members now that have sham marriages so as to get the pay and benefits of a married couple.

…and to this I ask, why the hell should a couple have to get married for health insurance benefits?

Because not having them is expensive?

I know a couple that were engaged to be married, had the wedding planned and everything.
Big wedding was set for fall.

In March the guy lost his job...

And his insurance.

He had an ongoing medical issue. One of those "Pre-existing conditions."

If he went without coverage for any amount of time, he would have been uninsurable.
To keep his (then) current coverage via COBRA, it would have been more than they could afford.
They had to get him on her coverage. Which could only be done if they were married.

So they had a very small, quiet ceremony in March. Only a handful of people knew that they were married for the entire summer.

And then they had the big, planned "wedding" in the fall. It was a wonderful event.

Nothing "sham" about their marriage or love or any of that. They've been married over 15 years now.

But they "had to" get married right away when it happened.

Sorry, I could have perhaps worded that better.

WHat I meant was "Why is it that a couple has to go through a marriage to prove that they're a committed couple and be able to share benefits?"

I'm not married to my girlfriend, and I won't be marrying her either because I think the entire concept of marriage is stupid. But to say that our relationship is any less valid and not worthy of sharing my health insurance benefits or whatever, because we haven't asked the government for their approval of our partnership is preposterous and somewhat offensive.

cavete terrae.

[jclalor 12]

grue

*********The military found this out a long time ago. There are members now that have sham marriages so as to get the pay and benefits of a married couple.

…and to this I ask, why the hell should a couple have to get married for health insurance benefits?

Because not having them is expensive?

I know a couple that were engaged to be married, had the wedding planned and everything.
Big wedding was set for fall.

In March the guy lost his job...

And his insurance.

He had an ongoing medical issue. One of those "Pre-existing conditions."

If he went without coverage for any amount of time, he would have been uninsurable.
To keep his (then) current coverage via COBRA, it would have been more than they could afford.
They had to get him on her coverage. Which could only be done if they were married.

So they had a very small, quiet ceremony in March. Only a handful of people knew that they were married for the entire summer.

And then they had the big, planned "wedding" in the fall. It was a wonderful event.

Nothing "sham" about their marriage or love or any of that. They've been married over 15 years now.

But they "had to" get married right away when it happened.

Sorry, I could have perhaps worded that better.

WHat I meant was "Why is it that a couple has to go through a marriage to prove that they're a committed couple and be able to share benefits?"

I'm not married to my girlfriend, and I won't be marrying her either because I think the entire concept of marriage is stupid. But to say that our relationship is any less valid and not worthy of sharing my health insurance benefits or whatever, because we haven't asked the government for their approval of our partnership is preposterous and somewhat offensive.

Keep in mind that if your GF was ever to become very sick, government programs like FMLA would be useless to you.

[grue 1]

jclalor

Keep in mind that if your GF was ever to become very sick, government programs like FMLA would be useless to you.

At least they'd be consistent with my beliefs about the government in general

But yeah I don't really like this whole "discrimination against committed but unmarried couples" thing.

cavete terrae.

[promise5 17]

Maybe it was pointed out already.

But not all salaried people have kids. There are plenty of people that are on salary that take time off leave early etc. that don't have kids.


Wanted to add a bit of come on give me a break here. There are plenty of jobs that it doesn't matter if you have kids or not. Those the do rotation schedules 2x2, if it's a holiday and its your rotation to work its suck it up cupcake your working.
Personally for me it's not a big deal I work holidays when I can take it off, because yeah being single or not having kids I can be a little more flexible. No biggie. Don't resent it at all.

It's not a us or them type of thing really.

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[jclalor 12]

grue

***
Keep in mind that if your GF was ever to become very sick, government programs like FMLA would be useless to you.

At least they'd be consistent with my beliefs about the government in general

But yeah I don't really like this whole "discrimination against committed but unmarried couples" thing.

I don't think getting 90 days "unpaid" off a year to care for a sick Spouse or child has a poiltical slant.

[turtlespeed 226]

jclalor

******
Keep in mind that if your GF was ever to become very sick, government programs like FMLA would be useless to you.

At least they'd be consistent with my beliefs about the government in general

But yeah I don't really like this whole "discrimination against committed but unmarried couples" thing.

I don't think getting 90 days "unpaid" off a year to care for a sick Spouse or child has a poiltical slant.

I was speaking to a friend from Bosnia . . . the company is require to pay the employee for like a year if it is a woman having a baby and 3 months for the father - free vacation.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[BillyVance 35]

turtlespeed

*********
Keep in mind that if your GF was ever to become very sick, government programs like FMLA would be useless to you.

At least they'd be consistent with my beliefs about the government in general

But yeah I don't really like this whole "discrimination against committed but unmarried couples" thing.

I don't think getting 90 days "unpaid" off a year to care for a sick Spouse or child has a poiltical slant.

I was speaking to a friend from Bosnia . . . the company is require to pay the employee for like a year if it is a woman having a baby and 3 months for the father - free vacation.

European countries on average are pretty damned generous with paid time off compared to the US.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[skymama 37]

Quote

WHat I meant was "Why is it that a couple has to go through a marriage to prove that they're a committed couple and be able to share benefits?"

Some companies do allow a significant other to be on an employee's health care plan. Normiss was able to add me to his plan about 2 years before we got married. I'm very thankful for the gay community pushing for their committed relationship rights, they helped me too!

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[PhreeZone 20]

The US has the worst maternity leave program of the entire world - basically none in a lot of jobs. This has been something that states are taking on and changing on a state by state basis but its a shame that a new mother has to go back to work within a week or two in some instances since they are out of sick days and can not go with out income for the 6-8 weeks that is recommended. As a side note look for this to be a topic on the 2016 presidential election since it is a hot topic among a lot of younger women voters - the ones both parties are needing to get to win the election.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[normiss 893]

Seriously?

I've always believed that doing a better job is much more rewarding than "throttling back".
If you're not applying yourself, maybe you're in the wrong line of work.

[grue 1]

jclalor

******
Keep in mind that if your GF was ever to become very sick, government programs like FMLA would be useless to you.

At least they'd be consistent with my beliefs about the government in general

But yeah I don't really like this whole "discrimination against committed but unmarried couples" thing.

I don't think getting 90 days "unpaid" off a year to care for a sick Spouse or child has a poiltical slant.

Not intentionally, it's just that most people assume that everyone wants to be married, or everyone wants to have kids, or everyone has a religion. Laws are frequently framed with these assumptions and can screw over people who don't want any of those things.

cavete terrae.

[grue 1]

skymama

Quote

WHat I meant was "Why is it that a couple has to go through a marriage to prove that they're a committed couple and be able to share benefits?"

Some companies do allow a significant other to be on an employee's health care plan. Normiss was able to add me to his plan about 2 years before we got married. I'm very thankful for the gay community pushing for their committed relationship rights, they helped me too!

Yeah that's a step in the right direction, and mine might even let me (haven't looked into it because while my health care is good and decently priced, adding my girlfriend if allowed would cost me more than I'm willing to spend), but it doesn't fix the issues with government.

cavete terrae.

[lawrocket 3]

PhreeZone

The US has the worst maternity leave program of the entire world - basically none in a lot of jobs. This has been something that states are taking on and changing on a state by state basis but its a shame that a new mother has to go back to work within a week or two in some instances since they are out of sick days and can not go with out income for the 6-8 weeks that is recommended. As a side note look for this to be a topic on the 2016 presidential election since it is a hot topic among a lot of younger women voters - the ones both parties are needing to get to win the election.

When my first son was born it was on a Tuesday. On Friday his mother was trying a case in a different county. Because she was the owner of her business and coukd have easily taken six months off of work, which would have meant laying off her employees.

I used to agree with you.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[GD64 1]

lawrocket

When my first son was born it was on a Tuesday. On Friday his mother was trying a case in a different county.

Man.......two lawyers in the family, and obviously one with a high pain threshold. Who presides over cross-exam er family discussion's and keeps order in the court er homestead......the acting judge, your son? My ear's are ringing from here, and my eyes are glazing over in legalize speak. Sounds like an interesting situation

[grue 1]

Iago

***Seriously?

I've always believed that doing a better job is much more rewarding than "throttling back".
If you're not applying yourself, maybe you're in the wrong line of work.

Yeah I used to think that, too.



Depends a lot on the company as well. I'm working at a startup for the first time, and the feeling that I'm actually doing work that matters is pretty cool. Of equal importance is the recognition of that work, which I'm getting.

cavete terrae.

[lawrocket 3]

GD64

***

When my first son was born it was on a Tuesday. On Friday his mother was trying a case in a different county.

Man.......two lawyers in the family, and obviously one with a high pain threshold. Who presides over cross-exam er family discussion's and keeps order in the court er homestead......the acting judge, your son? My ear's are ringing from here, and my eyes are glazing over in legalize speak. Sounds like an interesting situation

We're divorced now. I'm now happily married to a psychiatrist. Amazing woman

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[grue 1]

lawrocket

******

When my first son was born it was on a Tuesday. On Friday his mother was trying a case in a different county.

Man.......two lawyers in the family, and obviously one with a high pain threshold. Who presides over cross-exam er family discussion's and keeps order in the court er homestead......the acting judge, your son? My ear's are ringing from here, and my eyes are glazing over in legalize speak. Sounds like an interesting situation

We're divorced now. I'm now happily married to a psychiatrist. Amazing woman

If it's a cold morning can your in-house shrink cure shrinkage?

cavete terrae.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Nataly

***Really?

If that's the case, it has more to do with the employer than the employee.

Again, who gets paid for hours they don't work?

It is something I have consistently encountered in the 19 years I have been working (in several very different jobs/companies). I even read a study on it once - if I find it I will post it on here. Single/childless people work more. It's not that parents are slackers - I'm sure having kids is like having two jobs... But child-free people work more hours at their paid job. It's not even debatable - it's fact. Like anything, there are always exceptions - but they are the exception. And of course as you rightly said, there are actual slackers out there on both sides - kids or no kids - but that's not what we are talking about here.


ETA - part of it is learning to say no, but even when you do, parents naturally have the priority when it comes to time off, et cetera. In a way it's right because raising kids *is* important... It's just that they often don't realise their work-place is flexible on the back of single people. It's not me going waaaaa waaaaaah... It's just the way it is. Kinda like John said: sick/disabled people work less on the back of healthy/abled people. It's called a "society" - not everyone contributes the same but there are overall benefits to the setup...

There is a difference between working more and being more productive.

I have had enough single people without kids working for me who put in lots of hours, but have never learned to be productive. I'll take a prent who knows the value of time, knows how much is left to do and finds a way to get it done, even if they have to leave a little earlier.

Usually those complaining have the time to do so, cause they are not being productive.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

grue

*********
Keep in mind that if your GF was ever to become very sick, government programs like FMLA would be useless to you.

At least they'd be consistent with my beliefs about the government in general

But yeah I don't really like this whole "discrimination against committed but unmarried couples" thing.

I don't think getting 90 days "unpaid" off a year to care for a sick Spouse or child has a poiltical slant.

Not intentionally, it's just that most people assume that everyone wants to be married, or everyone wants to have kids, or everyone has a religion. Laws are frequently framed with these assumptions and can screw over people who don't want any of those things.

it isn't an assumption. It is a requirement.

What I mean with that is that a country needs continued growth. In order for that to happen, babies need to be born. To facilitate this, laws and regulations are drafted to help this.

The less babies Americans make, the more immigration is needed to keep the country growing.