"Fly the Friendly Skies"

[Phil1111 1,149]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STJQnu72Nec

After being forcefully removed he returned to the AC.

Stupid people, passengers and airline personnel. Two hour delay.

Pilot gives passenger trespass warning. Passenger doesn't leave. Get police.

No passengers want to leave, offer two flights. No results three flights, then four flights. Probably a good idea not to overboard the aircraft.

Apart from assault, a passenger who gets in the way of a crewmember's ability to perform his or her job can be fined by the Federal Aviation Administration or even prosecuted on criminal charges, depending on the severity of the interference.

Flight crew interference incidents can result in up to 20 years' imprisonment and fines of up to $250,000, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Potential Civil Consequences

Acts of interference that don't quite rise to the level of criminal conduct can still warrant hefty fines by the FAA.

In fact, the FAA can propose up to $25,000 per violation for unruly passenger cases. One incident can result in multiple violations, according to the FAA's website.
http://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2013/11/what-happens-if-you-disobey-a-flight-attendant.html

[Phillbo 11]

United better get ready to pay out big time. I suppose if you show up at the airport and flash your United Airlines employee ID, and tell the ticket agent you need to report to work in Louisville that night, they'll be happy to toss a paying customer off the airplane for you...Quite an employee perk...Where do I apply?

[JerryBaumchen 1,446]

Hi Phil,

Quote

Stupid people, passengers and airline personnel.

I made my first flight on United in late 1959. I've flown United more than any other airline.

It has been some time ago, but United was bought by the employees ( buy-out led by a jumper ). They have been going downhill ever since.

Too bad, at one time I considered them the best of the domestics.

Jerry Baumchen

[akarunway 1]

Not gonna happen. I just read the rules and regs. on overbooking. He has no legal recourse. The article's on Drudge. They MAY pay him to stop the bad press tho. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-10/united-s-forcible-removal-from-overbooked-flight-triggers-outrage

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[headoverheels 333]

Perfect example of the rights of corporations vs. individuals.

[ryoder 1,590]

On another forum, someone stated that "$800" offer for volunteers to be bumped is not real money; It is a voucher with a whole raft of restrictions that makes it unlikely you will ever be able to use it.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[JerryBaumchen 1,446]

Hi Robert,

Quote

a whole raft of restrictions that makes it unlikely you will ever be able to use it

Just like their Mileage Plus Program.

At one time that was a great program if not the best of all of the frequent flier progams, I know, I had over 850,000 miles in it at one time. I'm now down to 50,000 miles & plan on emptying my account some time within a year.

She ain't what she used to be.

Jerry Baumchen

[Phil1111 1,149]

ryoder

On another forum, someone stated that "$800" offer for volunteers to be bumped is not real money; It is a voucher with a whole raft of restrictions that makes it unlikely you will ever be able to use it.

Its not real money but can be used on future United flights.

IMO the first mistake was allowing the passengers to board. Usually those auctions take place in the waiting lounge and someone always takes it. The idiot United employees who needed to get on the flight must have been late to the gate.

The pilot/crew should have offered more United dollars. It was the statement of another passenger that they only offered $800.

"If your delay is more than two hours or if the airline doesn't make alternate travel arrangements for you, your compensation doubles again

If the airline doesn't rebook you or books you on another flight that gets in to your domestic destination two hours after your original arrival time (four hours for international destinations), you are entitled to 400% of your one-way fare, up to $1,300."
http://www.businessinsider.com/what-youre-entitled-to-if-you-get-bumped-off-a-flight-2015-6

The cops that removed the passenger were real cops. So the flight crew asked the passenger to leave and under the law thats a lawful order.

Then the cops asked him to leave and trespassed him. He refused again, resisted the cops and started a fight with them in the cabin.

Be it Alec Baldwin, or the "nut rage" incident:
"A former Korean Air vice president was sentenced to one year in prison on Thursday for ordering a plane in New York to return to its gate after becoming furious over how her macadamia nuts were served.

Heather Cho, who also goes by her Korean name of Cho Hyun-ah, ordered the Dec. 5 Seoul-bound flight at John F. Kennedy International Airport to let off the flight’s purser, whom she said had served her macadamia nuts in a sealed package instead of on a plate. Cho was seated in first class and argued that serving the nuts in their package was a violation of company service practices."

I would throw the book at this idiot for fighting with the cops. Everyone is blaming United and they have some blame. The pilot should have authorized $1300 United cash and then $1500 actual cash. But after the cops are in the equation its their purview.

What if that idiots fight had injured another passenger? A cabin is not the place to fight with the cops. The cops should have been able to use better persuasion. But in the end LE typically doesn't say to someone who refuses a lawful order that they will just forget it.Then leave.

Alec Baldwin:
http://blogs.findlaw.com/celebrity_justice/2011/12/alec-baldwin-american-airlines-in-war-over-words-with-friends-on-plane.html

Nut rage
http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-south-korea-nut-rage-case-20150212-story.html

[NewGuy2005 53]

headoverheels

Perfect example of the rights of corporations vs. individuals.

A perfect example of why I prefer to drive in almost any circumstance.

[Phil1111 1,149]

NewGuy2005

***Perfect example of the rights of corporations vs. individuals.

A perfect example of why I prefer to drive in almost any circumstance.

I'd refer to the psychology experiments where rats are confined in small spaces until they always start fighting with each other. Then ultimately kill each other. Another reason why passengers can't have guns on flights.

[ryoder 1,590]

Phil1111

IMO the first mistake was allowing the passengers to board. Usually those auctions take place in the waiting lounge and someone always takes it.

Agreed.
Once the passenger has boarded, being bumped should be out of the question.
At this point where is his luggage?
I'm sure it is either in the hold, or in the process of being put there.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[gowlerk 2,253]

ryoder

On another forum, someone stated that "$800" offer for volunteers to be bumped is not real money; It is a voucher with a whole raft of restrictions that makes it unlikely you will ever be able to use it.

I'm told to never take the volunteer offer for being bumped. If you are involuntarily bumped they are required to pay you real money, and a lot more of it.

http://lifehacker.com/if-your-flight-is-overbooked-dont-volunteer-to-get-bum-1722036179

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[headoverheels 333]

gowlerk

***On another forum, someone stated that "$800" offer for volunteers to be bumped is not real money; It is a voucher with a whole raft of restrictions that makes it unlikely you will ever be able to use it.

I'm told to never take the volunteer offer for being bumped. If you are involuntarily bumped they are required to pay you real money, and a lot more of it.

http://lifehacker.com/if-your-flight-is-overbooked-dont-volunteer-to-get-bum-1722036179

I wouldn't say never, if you truly are not in a hurry, and can still get there conveniently, and will use whatever deal they are offering. My brother has taken the bump voluntarily on several occasions; I never have.

Involuntary does require them to pay you some cash, but the limit is pretty low.

[baronn 111]

Of all the options available to United and the LE, this path will prove to have been their worst option. The bump was to allow another crew member (or more) to get to Louisville to fly a plane. Good reason, poor way to handle it. The stewart staff shude have been bumped and the flight crew cude have served the peanuts, can't be an hr flite. This passenger was chosen because they were a cheap seat. Sure, pick on those that can't afford to miss a day of work. And last, getting into a physical altercation with a cabin full of smart phones had to be 1 of the stupidest things i've seen a while. I wude have loved to have seen the rest of the passengers stand up and block these bullies with a badge. But then. that's these Assholes basic MO........

[normiss 860]

Yup. As verified by luggage tracking devices.

[quade 4]

There is what is legal, and there is what is right.

No paying customer ought to ever be bumped for the stupidity of poor scheduling of crew flights.

United -may- have been legally protected, but they made the worst possible decision to escalate it to a police issue.

While the guy may not have standing in court, this will ultimately cost United FAR more than if they had hired a private charter to repo the crew.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ryoder 1,590]

"The Chicago Department of Aviation said in a statement that one of the officers did not follow protocol and added that he had been placed on leave pending a review for actions not condoned by the department."

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ual-passenger-idUSKBN17C1VX

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[DJL 235]

Am I asking a dumb question when I say:



If he was already seated then who was not seated and why did they not move the unseated person to another flight?



If they're overbooked they they have run out of seats, right? So...were there people on laps? I'm missing something here.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[riggerrob 643]

The (medical doctor) passenger was bumped to allow United crew members to fly to Louisville. If those crew members did not arrive in Louisville (on time) United would have been forced to cancel a revenue flight.

That being said, I still think that a medical doctor should have been "priority last" when deciding to remove passengers.

[muff528 3]

Meanwhile, I heard that Michael O'Leary beat a doctor unconscious and dragged him onto an under-booked Ryanair flight.

[Phil1111 1,149]

quade

There is what is legal, and there is what is right.

No paying customer ought to ever be bumped for the stupidity of poor scheduling of crew flights.

United -may- have been legally protected, but they made the worst possible decision to escalate it to a police issue.

While the guy may not have standing in court, this will ultimately cost United FAR more than if they had hired a private charter to repo the crew.

I agree, but rescheduling at short time intervals for flight crews happens more often than some think. I think the actions of the man screaming like a stuck pig and being dragged down the isle in rigor strikes me as equally indefensible.

The policy at United is to keep upping the offer till a taker comes forward. Furthermore pilots have huge discretion for anything that occurs on-board their aircraft.

I think this was actually a Republic Airlines flight. There is a bit of debate as to whether the passenger was "boarded" or not. But under the contract and law. The passenger..er.."guest" can be removed at any time. Although presumably not while in flight.

In defense of the flight crew this may have been entirely the actions of the United gate agents.There is a jumpseat, was it already occupied by the last minute crew?

Delta has offered $1500 or more to free up seats(plus acc.). United has issued a statement that they offered $1000 at the gate. But according to a passenger interview he heard only $800 in the AC.

In a couple weeks this will all settle down. The quants at UAL will provide new analysis that an additional .03% overbook on routes 372 and 692, etc. will add $34,000 more to the bottom line on a monthly basis. The COO will rubber stamp the plan. Because as everyone knows. Quants run airlines.

[DJL 235]

riggerrob

The (medical doctor) passenger was bumped to allow United crew members to fly to Louisville. If those crew members did not arrive in Louisville (on time) United would have been forced to cancel a revenue flight.

That being said, I still think that a medical doctor should have been "priority last" when deciding to remove passengers.

Oh, wow. Sorry, once that guy boarded it was too late. They need to put their crew member on a toilet or figure something else out.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[muff528 3]

DJL

***The (medical doctor) passenger was bumped to allow United crew members to fly to Louisville. If those crew members did not arrive in Louisville (on time) United would have been forced to cancel a revenue flight.

That being said, I still think that a medical doctor should have been "priority last" when deciding to remove passengers.

Oh, wow. Sorry, once that guy boarded it was too late. They need to put their crew member on a toilet or figure something else out.

He can sit on the floor like we do.

[ryoder 1,590]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV28_ENzFog

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[muff528 3]

2 hour delay + about 1 hour for the trip + maybe an hour FA time = ~4 hours. He could have driven in 4 or 5 hours.