Riggers: Would you let another rigger tighten a Reflex/Racer with your seal on it?

[PhreeZone 20]

Would you let another rigger tighten a Reflex/Racer with your seal on it?

Something popped up today I had'nt thought of or heard of. A guy said his rigger wanted to be the only one to tighten his poptop no matter how bad it looked. I can under stand from a pull force side but if you have it 1-2 inches off of where it needs to be is the safety concern to the jumper more important to tighten the loop or maintain the pull forces on your seal?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[masterrig 1]

That's a good question. In the owner's manual for the Reflex, it states that the pilot-chute may only be tightened-down by the rigger who packed it. So, in that case, we are bound by the fact we 'must' follow manufacturer's instructions. Besides, I wouldn't want another rigger doing something while my seal is on that reserve pin. The owner in such a situation would have to wait till he/she could get it to their rigger. In other words, NO!

Chuck

[pilotdave 0]

I'd be pretty pissed if no riggers would tighten my poptop just cause it was packed by someone else. It's just not always possible to have the rigger tighten it, and getting a repack cause my poptop was loose is ridiculous. I'd tighten it myself if a rigger wouldnt do it, but it would be safer for a competent rigger to do it.

Dave

[brits17 0]

There was a situation in which I re-tightened a Reflex closing loop because F-111 was seeping out b/w the cap and spring. The loop was very loose. I called the rigger who had recently packed the reserve and obtained his approval to tighten his work. Under no circumstances would I tamper with a closing loop etc without first receiving an affirmative response from the rigger whose seal is on the reserve.

He showed up at the dz later that day and double checked on the loop.

I wouldn't let anyone tighten the PC with my seal on it. Only a select few. I know these few would have the respect to contact me before making any changes.

_______________________
aerialkinetics.com

[KevinMcGuire 0]

theres not really anthing you can do about it because the loops are there for any one to mess with when ever they feel like it. The only way you can stop it is to be standing right there when it happens. While each system may have proven that they work, both systems make it easy to sabotage another riggers reputation by some one else placing more than the allowable pounds nessessary to pull the R/C, after the rig as been repacked and signed off.

[riggermick 7]

Quote

That's a good question. In the owner's manual for the Reflex, it states that the pilot-chute may only be tightened-down by the rigger who packed it. So, in that case, we are bound by the fact we 'must' follow manufacturer's instructions. Besides, I wouldn't want another rigger doing something while my seal is on that reserve pin. The owner in such a situation would have to wait till he/she could get it to their rigger. In other words, NO!


I wrote that statement to protect everyone involved with the rig (me included )from liability. Prudence (and our current legal climate) dictates that no one except the rigger who performed the work originally, touch the rig. In reality a competent rigger could (and probably would) perform the re-tightning work with no problem, unfortunatly there are some bozos out there that I wouldn't let tie my shoes. That's the real reason statements like the one quoted are written into statements of acceptance all the time. Just because someone has a rigger ticket, it does not in any way shape or form make them a competent rigger on that fact alone. Some people "have it" and some don't, sad but true.

Mick.
Chuck

[masterrig 1]

Thanks, Mick! It's great, to hear it straight from the source! I must agree with you, that there are more than competant riggers who would do it right. As you said also, there are some out there (that I personally know) that I wouldn't let pack my suitcase for an over-night trip. It's sad to me, that it has to be the way it is, but, we have to cover our butts. Also, I have found that, the pilot-chutes 'creep' up, it's the nature of the 'beast'. Also, we accept all risk if, we 'give permission' to another rigger.

Chuck
P.S. I was falsly accused by one of those riggers who only 'holds' a certificate and later cleared. That FAA thing is no fun... trust me!

[wingnut 0]

Quote

A guy said his rigger wanted to be the only one to tighten his poptop no matter how bad it looked.

that is the reason that some people don't like packing these types or containers as someone can change the pull force withought breaking the seal... as a racer owner i know it can be done.......i am also told though that you can pack a racer so that you can't getto the quick loop ends.....nightjumper could explain it / show ya....

______________________________________
"i have no reader's digest version"

[skydiverton 0]

It's what the manufacturer says. Just follow it or buy a rig that does not have this problem.

It sound rather scary to me. A pilot which becomes loose during time?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit,
Especially when you are jumping a sport rig

[councilman24 37]

No. I try to educate the owners that only I should tighten them. But I don't do very many. A friend brought his Reflex in and pull force was about 40 lb. I'd packed it but he had another guy tighten it. Usually my Reflex doesn't need tightening.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[riggermick 7]

Quote

It's what the manufacturer says. Just follow it or buy a rig that does not have this problem.

It sound rather scary to me. A pilot which becomes loose during time?

Every single spring loaded pilot chute out there loosens up over time, it's just more noticable on external pilot chutes. Thats why they are adjustable. I did design and prototype an adjustable loop system for an internal pilot chute design some time ago but never released it as we sold the business and it didn't matter any more (to me).

Mick.

[masterrig 1]

Dang! Probably would've been a great idea and worked quite good. I'm sure, would've saved a lot of hassle.

Chuck

[teason 0]

I think if a rigger tightened a po top, he would have to do a pull test on it. To not pull test a pop top after closure is irresponsible. I've seen Racers with 40lbs+ pull force. I had a Racer Tandem that bottomed out my 50lbs fish scale! Imagine pulling that with one hand!

When I tighten a pop top, I have to remove the seal to do the pull test and then I reseal it.

Haven't tightened anyone else's work 'cause I'm the only game in town at my DZ.
If I took my rig to someone else to retighten I think I'd want a pull test, comments on the data card and a new seal.
****Would that be in line with the FARs?****

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[skydiverton 0]

Quote

Quote

It's what the manufacturer says. Just follow it or buy a rig that does not have this problem.

It sound rather scary to me. A pilot which becomes loose during time?

Every single spring loaded pilot chute out there loosens up over time, it's just more noticable on external pilot chutes. Thats why they are adjustable. I did design and prototype an adjustable loop system for an internal pilot chute design some time ago but never released it as we sold the business and it didn't matter any more (to me).

Mick.

I've never experienced a loose pilot chute on my javelin. I check this on a regular base because most of my jumps are from a C206 (cargodoor). On this type of airplane a deploying canopy is very likely to pull you over or thru the stabilo while floating

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit,
Especially when you are jumping a sport rig