Shady Rental Gear..?

[spidermonky 0]

I've been jumping at a large DZ lately (I'll let it be nameless) and I've had a great time. They seem very concerned with safety but it isn't overbearing either.
Everything was fine, until I started dating a girl who just finished AFF...
The student gear here varies wildly from rig to rig. They are all Dolphins and many of them clearly aren't being maintained adequately. On my girlfriend's 14th jump, she had received a gear check from a master rigger and did a coach jump with an instructor. She had another gear check before exit. I believe the freefall involved one or two backflips but the majority of the dive was stable bellyflying. Toward the end of the dive the instructor noticed a toggle had come out and shortly after the other toggle came out too!! He gave her the sign to pull, which she did, but they instantly wrapped around each other. Of course the lines were knotted and the canopy was a spinning ball 'o crap. She did a good job cutting away and safely landed her reserve.
The canopy landed dead center of the landing area and it was inspected. The toggles were held by velcro and when pressed against the risers, would fall off when the pressure was released.
We've made a jump together and the rig she used for that jump needed new velcro also. The reserve cover would not stay closed. Some of the adjustable main lift webs are routed through the buckle and then essentially tied around the buckle, which made it difficult to inspect.

It seems to me that as long as these rigs are used for AFF, they need to be able to handle the manuevers therein.

Basicly, I'm not sure how much of a stir I should be willing to get into. I have a feeling the rigger there won't be too receptive. Any advice?

[FrogNog 1]

I'm not getting on anyone's case, but this sport is largely about personal responsibility. There are definitely rigs out there that I wouldn't jump, or I would only hop-and-pop.

100% worn-out velcro happens. It should be replaced. The gear owner should do it. If someone is renting it out, they "should" replace it at some point, but they'll sort of decide when on their own. And they won't know what's wrong with every rig necessarily, if they don't inspect it themselves well enough to notice and nobody tells them.

My advice is to check the rigs over yourself, and if you don't like it, don't jump it (and go ahead and explain why you want to jump something else). Learn as much as you can about what gear should and does look like, and you will continually get better at catching most things. (There are probably still going to be things that only a rigger in the know would catch.)

[skydiverjerry 0]

The toggles were held by velcro and when pressed against the risers, would fall off when the pressure was released.

new velcro needed for sure takes about 10 mins work

The reserve cover would not stay closed.
reserve loop to long the flaps are worn or the velcro needs replacing, depending on the rig

Some of the adjustable main lift webs are routed through the buckle and then essentially tied around the buckle, which made it difficult to inspect.

replace the elasticks (sounds like a javlin?)

It seems to me that as long as these rigs are used for AFF, they need to be able to handle the manuevers therein.

Basicly, I'm not sure how much of a stir I should be willing to get into. I have a feeling the rigger there won't be too receptive. Any advice?

it's not about advice how receptive or not he is you / we have a moral obligation to be safe and make others safe, if there is an obvius problem with gear then we all should be able to say somthing without making a stink stir bad vibs,
if the rigger / dzo then says it's ok or the gear will work like that and you disagrea then dont jump there and post your issue's in a friendly and informative manner just like you did,
any good rigger has a form that you can fill in saying what work needs doing on the gear ask for it fill it in date it and get sombody expierienced to counter sign for you.

blue skies

ps gear for students needs to be 100% why er um

life is a journey not to arrive at the grave in a pristine condition but to skid in sideways kicking and screaming, shouting "fuck me what a ride!.

[slug 1]

Hi Spidermonkey

The rigger works for the DZO. Just be diplomatic and tell the DZO in private what happened. If the DZO knows the velcro needs to be replaced maybe he'll see that it gets done. No talkee no workee
It'll be interesting to see what the DZO does about replacing the missing adjustable harness keepers. IMO using a knot to secure the loose end of the webbing for a indefinate period is not a good sign.

R.I.P.

[AndyMan 7]

Quietly mention to the DZO that you think some of their gear needs maintenance. Have a list, and be prepared to show him.

Many DZO's are simply unaware of the condition of their student gear, since they don't jump them.

Don't become a pain in the ass unless you've first tried to point it out quietly.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[riggerrob 643]

Student/rental main canopies should be inspected (and repaired) sooner than the 100 jump cycle recommended for up jumpers, because of all the sloppy packing, unstable openings, dragging through weeds, etc.
Also students are not knowledgeable enough to know when to refuse to jump frayed rigs.Try reminding the DZO that Velcro is cheap, but lost reserve pilot chutes are expensive!

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

Student/rental main canopies should be inspected (and repaired) sooner than the 100 jump cycle recommended for up jumpers, because of all the sloppy packing, unstable openings, dragging through weeds, etc.

Of course. DZO's don't usually do that, they farm it off to riggers.... Who may or may not do a good job.

Before flying off the handle, a concerned jumper should quietly discuss the issues with management, to make sure they're aware. Only then should they fly off the handle...

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[slug 1]

Hi Andy

>>Of course. DZO's don't usually do that, they farm it off to riggers.... Who may or may not do a good job.>>

IMO The agreement between a DZ and their rigger varies from DZ. Why blame the rigger? There's also a packer that packed the gear knowing the velcro was shot. Why blame the packer? This is probably a "busy" DZ and the team including the DZO isn't working together.

>>Before flying off the handle, a concerned jumper should quietly discuss the issues with management, to make sure they're aware. Only then should they fly off the handle...>>

IMO no reason to fly off the handle unless you own the place. Don't like whats going on go to another DZ. Since the DZ is a USPA member send a registered letter with your concerns to USPA if the DZ doesn't clean up their act.

USPA doesn't have to give every DZ their offical stamp of approval if their aware of a problem. Students need good equipment.

Just my opinion.

R.I.P.

[billvon 3,118]

>The toggles were held by velcro and when pressed against the risers,
> would fall off when the pressure was released.

Note that this can be a gray area in gear maintenance. Often, the main is separate from the reserve/container system. At Square One, for example, you rent the main and reserve/container separately. At your DZ, they may have a system in place to ensure regular maintenance of the reserve/container by a rigger, but no regular inspection of the main system unless there's a problem. Sounds like there is a problem, so it would be appropriate to bring it up with whoever's responsible for the gear.

[skipro101 0]

Quote

I'm not getting on anyone's case, but this sport is largely about personal responsibility. There are definitely rigs out there that I wouldn't jump, or I would only hop-and-pop.

100% worn-out velcro happens. It should be replaced. The gear owner should do it. If someone is renting it out, they "should" replace it at some point, but they'll sort of decide when on their own. And they won't know what's wrong with every rig necessarily, if they don't inspect it themselves well enough to notice and nobody tells them.

My advice is to check the rigs over yourself, and if you don't like it, don't jump it (and go ahead and explain why you want to jump something else). Learn as much as you can about what gear should and does look like, and you will continually get better at catching most things. (There are probably still going to be things that only a rigger in the know would catch.)

I think your missing a very important fact. This is student gear. Students must rely on others to make descisions for them because they are ignorant. Period.

You cannot expect a level 1 AFF jump student to know enough about gear to figure out of its safe. It is the responsibility of the DZO to make sure that the student gear is safe. Anything else is asking for disaster. I know....I had two cutaways in a row on student gear at my first dz. I switched to a different dz. Im lucky that that first student gear didnt kill me.