Should the Reserve be larger or same size as the Main?

[skymiles 3]

I’m buying a new rig and trying to decide on what size reserve to get. I’ve always thought the reserve should be one size bigger than the main because you’ll probably be low and out when you need it. However, the other augment I’ve heard is that reserve canopies are docile and easier to land and, therefore, can be the same size as the main. Also, does the equation change for HP canopies? I would appreciate any comments in addition to your vote.

Here are my details:
Main – Sabre2-135
Exit weight – 185
# of jumps – 580

Phil

[councilman24 37]

Forget what size the main is and get a reserve sized for your weight. i.e. PD 160 or R-Max 188 per the manuf. sites. Then see if you can make a rig work with them. And the guys flying the 97's and smaller get to compromise with a reserve too small.

But, I'm a lonely voice in the wilderness and lots of people are pushing their reserves too small to be able to size a container for their handkerchief mains.

A seven cell 0-3 cfm fabric (F-111 type) reserve will land like nothing you've probably jumped. And nothing like your Sabre. Get a demo (start big) and jump one to see.

Nomex on.
.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[towerrat 0]

I didn't vote. I think reserves should be sized appropriatly for your weight, but this is obviously not the trend.I jump a PD143.At a wingload of 1.5 it is clearly overloaded for my skill level. I made my decision and am ready to accept any consequences stemmimg from its use.Where I jump there is a lot of open space, and I wanted a slightly cleaner rig.I disagree with the statement that a reserve is easier to fly because it is more docile.If you have never flown it before, or have limited experience under it, you still really can't fly it, can you?

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Your reserve and main should be sized such that you wouldn't mind landing either one in a packed parking lot on a hot summer day with no windsock. This is probably more likely under a reserve.

At lower wing loadings the limit is set entirely by the size canopy you'd be willing to fly. With higher loadings tecnology has its limits - I'll jump a smaller cross-braced than conventional elliptical and smaller conventional elliptical than a square.

Reserves land differently than contemporary mains but not easier and you probably won't be familiar with one when you use it.

You may also want a larger reserve so you can survive the landing unconscious or incapacitated (as in a Cypres fire, shoulder dislocated in freefall, leg broken on exit).

I think the lesser of 1.3 pounds/square foot or your main wing loading is a fine reserve wing loading limit.

Obviously this limits your container options when you choose smaller mains.

Have a PD143R demo sent out.

[teason 0]

This has bugged me for some time.

Why was it unacceptable to jump an extremely overloaded f111 7 cells in the late 80s and early 90s and now it's done on a regular basis?

I came into the sport when Zero-p fabric was being introduced and only a few people knew what spectra was (it was vaguely termed microline back then).
PD had a max weight on their Sabre 170 at 187lbs out the door.

Porosity was no longer the issue it once was and wing loadings became higher becuase of it.

I may be wrong but I believe people didn't overload f111 canopies because of their flight characteristics and limitations of the fabric. After a few jumps f111 got more porous and geometric porosity was always a factor.

New designs and planforms allowed us, and sometimes required us, to greatly overload our canopies to a level that would have seemed like suicide 10-12 years ago.

So now here we are. We see nothing wrong with jumping overloaded HP eliptical ZP canopies.
Of course when you have a mal, you're going back to the 7 cell f111 canopies of yester year.

Yes I do know the new f111 has a cfm of 0-3 and designs are tweaked, but the designs, planforms and materials are still not the same as HP elliptical mains.
They are subject to geometric porosity and have not had the same changes that allow us to overload.

For some reason we think it's OK to fly apples like oranges.

Besides, when it all hits the fan and you're broken after a canopy collision or some other painful experience, do you really want to come in hot?

Any canopy designers out there who can correct me? Please do so, I have not been prevy to the reserve design process/considerations and I'm just going by what I've seen in my limited perspective.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[FrogNog 1]

I think reserve sizing should stand on its own. The size of the main compared to the reserve matters for two-out situations and for container construction. The actual size of the reserve canopy matters for deployment rating and landing.

I haven't downsized my main yet, so I don't know what I'm going to do about my reserve.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[Deuce 1]

My combination is 143 reserve over 150 main. PDR and Spectre.

I jump more than 10 times a week, at least, and at different altitudes, but MSL and density. My 143 handles similar to my main.

What's your weight? I have a couple of Wings W8's and there's nothing big about them in the plane. I don't think you'd gain much going smaller than a 143.

We had a friend pull so many G's on a spin up recently that he couldn't lift his arms up to his handles to cutaway, he blacked out and the problem fixed itself. When he came to, his hands did the last thing his brain was thinking when he lost consciousness, and he chopped. Probably a good thing, as he's on a sub-100 hyper-perfomance main. His reserve was just a little bigger, and does not require some sort of hook to land well.

It seems silly to get into a cutaway situation only to have a reserve that requires almost as much attention to land safely.

[sundevil777 102]

How about size being a factor for opening reliability.

With a lower wingloading, shouldn't the canopy be less likely to have as many line twists (and be less affected by the same amount of twists) that might result from an unstable body position on opening, or whatever reason that might cause line twists?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[nightjumps 1]

Get what's right for your weight at the MSL you "might" jump at.

[jas8472 0]

same size as the main???

If I was jumping a stupidly small cross brace I would not want a reserve the same size.

Equally if I had a large accuracy canopy I would probably want a smaller reserve.

I atcually have a Pilot 168 and a PD160R which are more or less the same size.

There are arguments for all.

[nightjumps 1]

Quote

same size as the main???

'What's right for your weight at the MSL you "might" jump at'

= what you said.

Sometimes larger than the main; sometimes smaller. It's not about making your container symmetrical, it's about jumping an F111 canopy suitable for your weight and other related risk/factors (MSL, unconcious, injured arm, skydiving discipline, etc.)

[livendive 8]

Imagine you are involved in a hard canopy collision at 2000 feet that rings your bell pretty well and destroys your main. You're a little punch-drunk as you settle in under your reserve 1000 feet above a forest. It looks like running downwind might get you clear of the trees, but just barely and there you see powerlines and a packed parking lot. What size reserve do you want for this situation?

If you're worried about canopy compatibility, get some CRW experience and then pick a reserve based on the above scenario. If you're concerned about your rig looking cool, get over that and then pick a reserve based on the above scenario.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[kosanke 0]

call the manufacturer. the folks at pd are great. depending on your needs and experience, they will give you a good matchup. I fly a stilleto 150 with a pd143r. check the square ft. a 143r is 150 sq ft. a good match for a two canopy out situation. hope this helps. the question has many correct answers.