Poynters Vol III?

[Shivon 0]

When I did my rigger's ticket (in Australia), the written material used for prepare the candidates for the theoretical and practical exams included Poynters Vol I and II, a set of Rigging Advisary Circulars (an Australian Parachute Federation document-set based on service bulletins, etc), and the Poynters Rigger study guide books. The theory exam was heavy with data from Poynters Vol I / II. The practical was heavy in techniques demonstrated in Poynters such as patching, but also incorporated techniques taught in the study guide.

Now that I have been rigging for a while, I still find Poytners my 'bible'. I have an infinite amount of respect for a guy that can put the sheer amount of work into a book like Poynters Vol I / II. It was a great publication when it came out, and it still is today, even though some of the information is now becomming quite dated. I think too that it is a sign of the times - where the only rounds I have packed are the ones I packed as part of the prep / exam for my pre-rigger packing rating (one of which came up negative for acid mesh) and the subsequent steady stream of pilot emergency systems.

I find that some of the most common rigging questions I field are to do with issues such as line types, and the characteristics of each relative to each other, and while I find educational websites like PD's site quite helpful, I would really like to see the equivalent of a Poynters Vol III.

Yes - there is a question in here somewhere: So does anyone know of a project out there to address what I see as the 'Poynters Vol III void'?

[slotperfect 7]

There are three books but not three volumes . . .

1) The original Volume I, black cover
2) Second generation Volume I, blue cover
3) Volume II, blue cover

HERE is Dan Poynter's website. Maybe you could email him and ask him if there are any plans for a Volume III? Please let us know what you find out!

Arrive Safely

John

[sunshine 2]

I get all excited just thinking about a Volume 3. I remember at first thinking how expenisve the first 2 volumes were, but they are soooo worth the measly $50 each one costs. I've put together my own little binder with newer information i've printed off from websites, but a volume 3 would be awesome. Maybe if enough of us bug Mr. Poyntner to make another volume, he will. We can only hope.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[councilman24 37]

Yep, only Dan could become famous for republishing other peoples information. (His joke.) Dan, famous for his refrain "Please buy my books" and littering any venue he attends with his business cards, is now co-authoring new editions of The Skydivers Handbook (not the rigging book) with Mike Turoff. Whether a volume three of the Parachute Manual is in the works or not I don't know.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[riggerrob 643]

Maybe if enough of us bug Mr. Poyntner to make another volume, he will.

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At the last PIA Symposium, I asked Dan about a volume III and he replied that he was trying to get out of the business of publishing books on paper. He just had not figured out how to turn a profit publishing rigging information on-line. He felt that the whole business of mailing paper has become far too cumbersome.
Dan also feels that manufacturers are doing a far better job of informing customers these days (i.e. all those packing manuals available on-line). Remember that when Mr. Poynter published Volume I, the best a rigger could do was steal a stack of military manuals from military parachute lofts, a multi-year process.

[mjosparky 4]

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Remember that when Mr. Poynter published Volume I, the best a rigger could do was steal a stack of military manuals from military parachute lofts, a multi-year process.

Oh, I don't know about that. I got the complete NAV-AIR manual out in one load.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[masterrig 1]

Or just 'keep' the packing instructions if, the owner supplied them at re-pack! Hee, Hee!
Chuck

[Shivon 0]

To my way of thinking, a problem with publishing the equivalent of a 'Poynters Vol III' is that there is much more diversity in the equipment in service now (riggers who have been around for a while - step in if you don't agree) than there was when Vol II was put together. There are so many types of containers / mains / reserves now that the researching might take a lot longer to put all the details together (I for one would love to see line trim charts for all known canopies in a Vol III).

[riggerrob 643]

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To my way of thinking, a problem with publishing the equivalent of a 'Poynters Vol III' is that there is much more diversity in the equipment in service now (riggers who have been around for a while - step in if you don't agree) than there was when Vol II was put together.

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I disagree.
In the last few years, I have seen container designers CONVERGE.
For example, there are only three reserve container designs in popular usage: Pop-Top, semi Pop-Top and enclosed pilotchutes. Only a couple of companies are building Pop-Tops (Racer & Teardrop). At last count 7 companies were building Javelin clones (Advance, Concept, Dolphin, Genesis, Javelin, Vortex II, Wings). But I lost count - a long time ago - of the number of companies that build Vector clones (Atom, Centarus, Icon, Infinity, Mirage, Next, old Talon, Vector, etc.)

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I for one would love to see line trim charts for all known canopies in a Vol III).

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Hear! Hear!
Over the years I have begged, borrowed and stolen dozens of trim charts, but my library is far from complete.

• Quote

[Shivon 0]

Would it be correct to say that there are more manufacturers of containers and canopies than when the first two books were produced?

[masterrig 1]

Just a thought, Rob. I've called PD and asked for trim specs for (namely the Stiletto) and was faxed charts for all their canopies. I've had little or no trouble getting these charts from different mfgr's, by simply asking.

Chuck

[PhreeZone 20]

PD has all thier line trim charts on their website.
And the number of players in the parachuting field have gone down a lot, but the complexity of their gear and trim charts have gone up. Looking at a Velocity trim chart matrix gives me nightmares in trying to think through making a lineset. In the past you had one manufactor of the main container/harness. One that made the reserve container, a reserve manufactor, a main manufactor aqnd it was up to the rigger to make sure that Part A had the right mounting rings at the right distance for part B to snap onto.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[riggerrob 643]

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Just a thought, Rob. I've called PD and asked for trim specs for (namely the Stiletto) and was faxed charts for all their canopies. I've had little or no trouble getting these charts from different mfgr's, by simply asking.

Chuck

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Yes,
I did down load all the new trim charts from Performance Designs' website.
However, I also learned the hard way why I should not have thrown out my old PD trim charts.
Manufacturers vary widely in their policies about publishing trim charts. For example, it was like pulling teeth to get any trim specs from the old Aeroyne. They did not grasp the concept that anyone with a new canopy, a tape measure, a half hour and two clues could write a trim chart. Because it was such a hassle to get line kits form the old Aerodyne, I re-lined a pair of Triathlons from scratch.
Hee! Hee!
You cannot keep a good rigger down!
I have even heard one major manufacturer voice the opinion that "if a field rigger needs advice from the factory, then maybe he should not be installing line kits."
Humpft!
This arrogant attitude riles the libertarian in me, so I have threatened to host a lecture at the next PIA Symposium. The title will be "Installing line kits," but the real deal will be sharing the little secrets that factories hold close to their chests.

[Shivon 0]

And of course we live in a world where canopies always leave the factory floor with a correctly cut set of lines....

... one reason why I would like to have a complete set of line trim charts. I think the PD's effort with their website is fantastic. As a side note, surely customers / riggers would place more credibility in a manufacturer that supplies the info over a manufacturor that hoardes.