Question about Perris, grass area, etc.

[Beachbum 0]

I agree with one of the other offshoot threads that this entire thing has brought up some interesting discussion. I don't want to rehash FMD, etc. I DO want to ask a question that relates to what I've seen in the other threads. Several times it has been stated that if you land in the grass area, you follow FMD, and if you don't want to do so, you can land elsewhere in the landing area. That seems to indicate that there is at least some semblance of order to landing on the grass, but that the rest of the area is just a big free for all, and could have people landing in all directions all over the landing area. Is this really how it works? That just sounds scary to me!

As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks?

[popsjumper 2]

3+ hours and no response from Perris.

As far as I can tell, according to their latest justifications for FMD, you have it correct.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[billvon 3,090]

>3+ hours and no response from Perris.

It may be that the people who run Perris do not check the Internet every 20 minutes to see if the Internet skydivers approve of what they are doing,

To the OP -

I've never seen it be a "free for all." Generally when the grass is open people either land there or land nearby in the same direction, since that direction is generally into the wind. Exceptions:

When some idiot does a downwinder in significant wind, the people who have already set up to land into the wind will abort and land to the east into the wind.

When the wind changes dramatically, then the jumpers who land after the wind change will often turn away from the original landing direction and land out, into the new wind. This has happened perhaps four times since I've been there, and at least twice it's saved my butt; I was looking at traffic and my intended landing area, and missed the dramatic wind change.

The off landing areas at Perris can be divided into a few general areas:

The dirt roads near the main landing areas and on top of the canal berm. These are created by Tim's truck and have little berms beside them. This effectively means that you can land one of two directions.

The main and alternate student areas. They are wide open circles where you can land in any direction.

Everywhere else. Generally avoided because they are full of weeds, but usable.

[diablopilot 2]

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3+ hours and no response from Perris.

As far as I can tell, according to their latest justifications for FMD, you have it correct.

Perris Valley Skydiving

2091 Goetz Road
Perris, CA 92570
(951) 657-3904

Want someone to dial it for you?

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[popsjumper 2]

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Want someone to dial it for you?

Sure! Have at it!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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It may be that the people who run Perris do not check the Internet every 20 minutes to see if the Internet skydivers approve of what they are doing,

Well, duh! I imagine the people who "run" Perris have other things to do, yes. It's the Perris local jumpers who have been posting by far and away. Didn't take long to respond to me, though. It got a response for the OP. Thanks.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[robinheid 0]

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It may be that the people who run Perris do not check the Internet every 20 minutes to see if the Internet skydivers approve of what they are doing,

Well, duh! I imagine the people who "run" Perris have other things to do, yes. It's the Perris local jumpers who have been posting by far and away. Didn't take long to respond to me, though. It got a response for the OP. Thanks.

Another *whoosh* for you, POPS... guess it never occurred to you that no one thought the OP merited a response because, guess what? There is nothing "original" in it.

SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

[Beachbum 0]

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guess it never occurred to you that no one thought the OP merited a response because, guess what? There is nothing "original" in it.

I suppose I must spend hours doing searches from every conceiveable angle about something to be absolutely certain that a question is "original" before posting a query from now on. I'm so terribly sorry to have inconvenienced you by forcing you to sit in front of your pc and making you read what was a genuine question, but that you felt had too little merit to bother with a response. Funny, you don't seem to mind making the supreme sacrifice of your time by responding to give someone grief though. Great attitude!

As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks?

[robinheid 0]

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guess it never occurred to you that no one thought the OP merited a response because, guess what? There is nothing "original" in it.

I suppose I must spend hours doing searches from every conceiveable angle about something to be absolutely certain that a question is "original" before posting a query from now on.

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You suppose incorrectly -- all you had to do was read the TWO Perris landing threads, wherein your "genuine question" is answered multiple times -- NO.

I'm so terribly sorry to have inconvenienced you by forcing you to sit in front of your pc and making you read what was a genuine question...

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Thanks for your concern but it was no inconvenience at all, though you might want to spend minutes to research the difference between "genuine" and "legitimate."

...but that you felt had too little merit to bother with a response. Funny, you don't seem to mind making the supreme sacrifice of your time by responding to give someone grief though.

Just goes to show you how lame your "genuine question" really was, doesn't it?

LOL

SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

[popsjumper 2]

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It may be that the people who run Perris do not check the Internet every 20 minutes to see if the Internet skydivers approve of what they are doing,

Well, duh! I imagine the people who "run" Perris have other things to do, yes. It's the Perris local jumpers who have been posting by far and away. Didn't take long to respond to me, though. It got a response for the OP. Thanks.

Another *whoosh* for you, POPS... guess it never occurred to you that no one thought the OP merited a response because, guess what? There is nothing "original" in it.

Nope never occured to me. I take it that people want answers and give answers to help, regardless of originality.

So...you think that only original posts merit a response? That pretty much relieves you of any obligation of helping out the youngsters, eh?

Why are you posting at all? I guess it never occurred to you that there's very little originality at all in here.
Back at you on the *whoosh*.
....add a *rolling eyes, shaking head*.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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Thanks for your concern but it was no inconvenience at all, though you might want to spend minutes to research the difference between "genuine" and "legitimate."

Why does he need to do that? YOU got off-track with "legitimate" Don't put words in people's mouths and you'll do a little better at communication.

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Just goes to show you how lame your "genuine question" really was, doesn't it?

Nope, your response shows more about you.
It reeks of "skygod" mentality.

Tell me...you're trolling aren't you.
My guess is yes.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

No point in responding to robinheid.
He's trolling and intentionally trying to misdirect the thread.
He's got my last response.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

So...you got 1 response.
Was it helpful?

As far as I can tell, according to the 1 response, you have it correct.

I have a tongue-in-cheek question for Bill.
How far out will Tim's truck go to pick us up?
Is Nevada too far?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Beachbum 0]

Agreed about the troll, and will try not to feed it. I thought that referencing the other threads made it clear that I had read them and still didn't know, so asked. Perhaps it is clear to someone who has been there, but since I have not and don't know the layout, it sounded (and still does) to me like it could get confusing. BV's answer was some help, yes, in that it described some of the specifics of the landing areas for me, but it didn't indicate to me just how any pattern could be established other than for the grassy area. Plus, he said there are two student areas where any direction IS acceptable.
Part of the reason I asked is that our dz recently moved to a new location, where the landing area is humongous. At the old place, the pattern was dictated by the landing area size/location, and there was really no question about holding area, etc. relative to the wind direction on any given day. I was just curious how this all works out at a multi-aircraft dz with multiple landing areas and a lot of room.

As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks?

[robinheid 0]

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No point in responding to robinheid.
He's trolling and intentionally trying to misdirect the thread.
He's got my last response.

I still can't quite figure out what all your hostility is about, and why YOU are so insistent on trolling and misdirecting the thread.

NO ONE responded to his lame question which had been repeatedly answered in the previous threads, so you just had to jump in and say:

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3+ hours and no response from Perris.

As far as I can tell, according to their latest justifications for FMD, you have it correct.

Which is, I might add, "put(ting) words in peoples' mouths" because it seems to me that this little kerfuffle is about a question he asked, not the "correct" opinion he offered disguised as a coda thereto.

So are you hostile to Perris generally, the Conatser family, Dan BC, Bill von, Paul Q, me -- or all of us?

Please man up and come clean, TrollPops, because it's patently obvious from the hostility YOU incited on this thread, and onto which YOU repeatedly threw more gasoline, that you really have a personal problem with either the DZ and/or some or many people associated therewith.



P.S. And Beachbum, if you were really sincere in your question, and you really didn't understand through the repeated postings from Perris jumpers that the air traffic environment there is in fact quite orderly, organized and safe the vast majority of the time, then I apologize for misunderstanding your post.

SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

[wmw999 2,563]

Come on, we're getting deep into sharpening our rapier wits on each others' posts, and far, far away from questions about Perris, landing directions, or whether one needs to wear a suit to go to jury duty.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[robinheid 0]

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Come on, we're getting deep into sharpening our rapier wits on each others' posts, and far, far away from questions about Perris, landing directions, or whether one needs to wear a suit to go to jury duty.

Wendy P.

If you wear a suit to jury duty, the defense will usually try to have you dismissed for cause, so whether you wear one or not depends on whether you want to get out of jury duty or not.

But come on yourself, Wendy, go ahead and tell me that TrollPops doesn't have a burr under his saddle, a bee in his bonnet, and his panties in a twist over either Perris itself and/or people associated therewith. Really, no one answers an OP for a few hours so he uses it as an excuse to throw **** at the fan DZ and its people... first time I've ever heard "wit" such as that described as "rapier-like."

SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

[billvon 3,090]

Robin, Popsjumper - cut it out. This is S+T, not Speaker's Corner.

[popsjumper 2]

mea culpa.


I did have a brain flash, though and I'm pretty sure it would be prohibitive in some way.....

More grass? Water the limiting factor?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Beachbum 0]

hmmm .... I thought I carefully worded that post to be benign, but it got removed ... guess I owe someone beer, since I think that is the first I've had taken off the forums ... LOL!! Is that a mod version of slapping my hands and telling me to behave? ...

As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks?

[wmw999 2,563]

Nope. When a post is removed, all of the posts that referred to it (i.e. were in its reply chain) are automatically removed by the tools. You replied to one of the removed posts, I"m sure.

In this case, your post added to the thread, and if you didn't have your answer yet, you'd be OK with posting it.

You were talking about the reason why you posted in the first place, right? I.e. the layout of hte new Eagle Lake DZ?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[robinheid 0]

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mea culpa.


I did have a brain flash, though and I'm pretty sure it would be prohibitive in some way.....

More grass?

Not likely.

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Water the limiting factor?

Yes.

SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

[popsjumper 2]

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Water the limiting factor?

Yes.



Is it the availability or the cost.
Not much one can do about availability but the cost...hmmmm, maybe locals could spring for some cash or get donations of cash and/or materials from the local community and the jumpers could donate some elbow grease?

How cool would it be to have lots of nice green, irrigated grass to go along with all the amenities already there!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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... guess I owe someone beer, since I think that is the first I've had taken off the forums ... LOL!!

I don't know what Robin drinks...I do soft drinks.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Beachbum 0]

First, Robin pm'd me some info that I think might have help clarify things a LOT in some of the original threads about FMD/Perris. They have such a huge area that the various landing areas there have enough space around them that there is ample room for each landing area to have it's own airspace for holding areas plus patten space. So, there is no conflict between them as I was envisioning ... that question's now answered, at least for me ... thanks Robin. So, if you don't like the FMD direction selected in the grass area, you switch to one of the other landing areas and get into the pattern for it instead.

Thanks Wendy! You know how Waller was set up. It was small enough that based on wind direction, the holding area was pretty well defined for you. Now, with the huge landing area at Eagle Lake, and the LONG walk you can have if you land out in the far reaches of the landing area, it's quite different. Have you been out there yet?

If the wind is west, it's easy, since you pretty much want to land near the southwest corner of the area so you don't have to make a trek back, and the holding area would be on the west side ... no problem. This also works ok if wind is north or south and you happen to be on the west side. It's much less clear if you end up making your approach from the east. Then, to land anywhere on the west side, you either have to start your pattern higher and fly a very long crosswind (which isn't flying a "regular" pattern), or your holding area has to be above part of the landing area. If you have the altitude to spare, sure, you fly south and west, and use the space between the tandem landing area (south) and the main landing area for holding/setup, but that doesn't happen to me that often, it seems. Sooooo ... what is the correct approach to take in order to land at least near where you'd like without causing trouble for others?

As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks?