craichead 0 #1 April 3, 2004 I've searched all of the forums and can't find a thread on this (maybe because of misspellings?), but I've seen it mentioned a few times in other threads. Some people talk about "vacuum packing" their crispy new ZP mains to get it in the bag. While I can see how this method saves a lot of time and frustration, I've also heard that it's not very good for your canopy. What do the riggers and manufacturers say? I know of one rigger who doesn't see anything wrong with it, but I'd like more opinions... Thanks! _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #2 April 3, 2004 I know of one rigger who doesn't see anything wrong with it, but I'd like more opinions... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where can I buy a vacuum packing machine? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 5 #3 April 3, 2004 The rigger and the physicist in me cannot see why this would be a problem, strictly from the perspective of exposing the canopy to low pressure, or due to compression. I will not comment on the unknown (to me) issues of how it is implemented. So long as there is not undue mechanical stress on the canopy, it shouldn't be a problem. I'd like to hear how practitioners do it though. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #4 April 3, 2004 Aren't you just a couple of days late posting this?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #5 April 3, 2004 What is the method/technique?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craichead 0 #6 April 3, 2004 QuoteWhat is the method/technique? That, I'm not so sure about. I've never seen it done, but my husband has. I think it involves inserting a vacuum hose attachment into the nose of the canopy, sucking all the air out, removing the vacuum hose, and then packing it as usual (pro pack). I'll ask AndyMan to describe it when he comes back from the DZ... _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #7 April 3, 2004 I've seen it done. Kenny from Morris used a vacuum to pack. As long as you're not sucking the material or lines into the vacuum, there is no damage being done to the canopy. The way i saw it done, it was flaked and laid on the ground as normal. Then the vacuum tube was inserted into the cacooned canopy while it was on the floor. The part above the lines and below the tail, being sure not to mess up the slider. You know what part of the pack job i'm talking about? After all the air was sucked out, he would make his S-folds and shove it in the bag. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #8 April 3, 2004 QuoteI've seen it done. Kenny from Morris used a vacuum to pack. As long as you're not sucking the material or lines into the vacuum, there is no damage being done to the canopy. The way i saw it done, it was flaked and laid on the ground as normal. Then the vacuum tube was inserted into the cacooned canopy while it was on the floor. The part above the lines and below the tail, being sure not to mess up the slider. You know what part of the pack job i'm talking about? After all the air was sucked out, he would make his S-folds and shove it in the bag. Just to add to what S. said, the end of the hose has a gizmo (technical term) over it so the nylon won't be sucked into the hose. I've seen several people doing it, including a rigger. The Vacuum Packing Machine is just a vacuum cleaner. I don't see how it would do any harm unless the fabric got sucked into the machine.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craichead 0 #9 April 3, 2004 QuoteThen the vacuum tube was inserted into the cacooned canopy while it was on the floor. The part above the lines and below the tail, being sure not to mess up the slider. You know what part of the pack job i'm talking about? Ahh, I think I get it now. Interesting. I'd really like to see this pack method in person! _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #10 April 3, 2004 QuoteAren't you just a couple of days late posting this? Nope I've seen it done....you have a grate of small barrs over the end of the vaccum so the material isn't sucked in. you use it after you have flaked and straigthened your lines, pulled the tail up and around the nose, and lay it on the ground when you have your triangle. you stick the vacuum in at the point you have ths slider and tail wrap...suck your air out.....then...take vacuum out....proceed to fold under and do your Sfolds then into the bag...does that describe it well enough. a plane old shop vac does the trick. doesn't need to be too big or powerfull at all. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
webracer 0 #11 April 3, 2004 I do it all the time. I made my own tip, and a couple tricks are to wrap the canopy tight before you lay it down (creates a seal), and to get the tip in between the slider grommets. I has no negative effect on openings, and does not affect the material or canopy negatively. I have been doing it for 4 years now (when I don't pay for packing). It is just removing the air a different way. My brand new VE 96 goes in the bag with great control and little effort. It is infact "vacuum packed" I learned it from Farmer, (as did most others from Morris). I usually have people standing around watching (hoping it doesn't work so they can say "I told you so," but they don't get much opportunity). I am also a rigger (as if that matters). I'll make and sell you a vacuum with tip for $80 if you want to buy a "canopy vacuum packing machine."Troy I am now free to exercise my downward mobility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #12 April 4, 2004 The "Thinpack" system listed on this site is vacum packed. I was involved in the testing in the late 90's. They are looking at a 27 year repack cycle. Sparky http://www.simula.com/personnel/My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StearmanR985 0 #13 April 5, 2004 I have used a vacuum to pack, it works beautifully. To avoid sucking up any lines and/or fabric I used a a fairly low power vacuum with a small nozzel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craichead 0 #14 April 5, 2004 So, people who have consistently packed their mains with a vacuum have noticed no ill effects on the fabric or the canopy as a whole. Our rigger at Hinckley seems to have started the practice, and the method has spread around the midwest, but a lot of people haven't heard about it. I emailed the folks at PD, Aerodyne and Precision to see what they have to say. Hopefully they will post here or I can report back soon! Thanks for your input, everybody! _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #15 April 5, 2004 QuoteI emailed the folks at PD, Aerodyne and Precision to see what they have to say. Hopefully they will post here or I can report back soon! Awesome! This is the kind of sharing of information that makes this forum exremely valuable for all of us. Thanks in advance for making the effort!Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craichead 0 #16 April 6, 2004 Okay, here's the first reply I've received...from Chris Martin, Precision Aerodynamics: I've seen it done before and seems to work very well... ...although I never have used it as a regular practice because I've found that with practice, a person can learn to pack quicker without the extra appliances. But if it suits ya, go for it! Chris Martin Precision Aero. Thanks for replying, Chris! _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craichead 0 #17 April 7, 2004 Another reply to my question, from Aubrey Easterlin of Aerodyne Research: Piriya, I've seen this technique used before, it seems that there wouldn't be any problem using a vacuum to take all the air out. The only issue I could think of would be the possibility of damaging the canopy with the business end of the vacuum head. If you think of the most common method used to get the air out of a canopy, laying on it, I do think you see a lot of damage there, when canopies come in for repair or relines and get a full inspection, you often see the most damage on the T5 (top center cell on a 9 cell) which I'm sure is due to friction and sweat damage from packing, so in theory the vacuum method could add a little life to your canopy (less touching of the coated material). The question to be answered would most likely be: does this affect my pack job negatively in any way? Lets take a quick look at a pro pack job, a lot of people don't know. PRO is an acronym for Proper Ram Orientation (I think the term was coined by Billy Webber) it is the recommended pack job for most of todays ram air canopies. It is the preferred method for all of Aerodyne's main canopies. The basic point (I'm not going to write out a packing class) is to get the lines organized in the center of the pack job and to get the fabric neatly arranged in-between the line groups to the outside of the lines, with the whole thing oriented in such a manor as to facilitate easy on heading inflation. So if you can do this lay the canopy down and get the air out by any means without distorting the lines (by wrapping them around the back of the canopy when you are getting the canopy sized to the right width for the bag), and still ensure that the slider grommets are against the slider stops, and the slider is still quartered, I would guess you would be fine using a vacuum. Here is the catch on this advise, coming from the manufacturer. Aerodyne has NOT tested the vacuum cleaner method, therefore I will not as a representative of the company endorse it. Nor do I see the necessity of buying a vacuum cleaner to make your packing better. And personally if I had an extra $100 to spend I would not buy a vacuum cleaner to aid my packing, I would buy 5 jumps or an extra set of risers so that I could change my risers out after 400 or so jumps, or take my girlfriend to dinner, anything other than buying a vacuum cleaner, and I'd just continue to pack the way I do now, wearing a T-shirt to prevent sweating on my canopy. Thanks for the question, hope I could be a little help. Aubrey Easterlin Sales Manager Aerodyne Research (if you choose to post this on the thread you started, please do not post it in part, post it entirely or not at all thanks...) Posted in its entirety! Thanks, Aubrey for the detailed response! _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
taz9420 0 #18 April 8, 2004 A Rigger/Packer I used to know; that is the way he did it. It was due to the fact that he couldn't bend over because of a steel rod in his back Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
