riddler 0 #1 April 1, 2004 So I haul a friend's rig up to hooknswoop's yesterday, and kept him up until 11 PM watching me repack it. Before I went over there, I checked the SBs for Precision and found the SB1221 about line attachment points, entered the serial number into their database and found that this Raven reserve was affected. I checked the packing card, and the rig was put together in 2003 from older parts (including the older reserve). The rigger that assembled it made no note of whether SB1221 had been performed on the packing card. "Only one way to find out", says hooknswoop, and I launch the spring loaded PC across his living room, where we open up the reserve and find that the SB has been done. My question is why isn't that shown on the packing card? I know the SB has been done prior to the assembly of this rig, but when the original rigger put it together, he didn't transfer that information to the new packing card. To me, it would make sense to do that. Hooknswoop advocates different cards for the reserve and container, which would eliminate this problem. But if I put together the rig from parts, I would be tempted to check the SBs, see what's been done, and add that information to the new card. Isn't this a standard practice? Should I write on the reserve card that the SB has been done, but I don't know who did it or when? That would be good info for the next rigger, but it's a bit vague. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiver30960 0 #2 April 1, 2004 I'd go ahead and make a note of it. Maybe put it up by the serial number or something like that so it doesn't get lost in the list of repacks? Really the data card should follow the canopy rather than the container (IIRC) so the fact that the canopy was assembled in a different container shouldn't make a difference. All the data cards should be with the canopy, stapled together or whatever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #3 April 2, 2004 QuoteReally the data card should follow the canopy rather than the container (IIRC) I don't believe this is necessarily a rule. I think many riggers prefer it, but I'm not sure it's standard. And if the packing card follow the reserve, how do you log a SB for the container?Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seal_S49 0 #4 April 2, 2004 Quote My question is why isn't that shown on the packing card? I'm guessing that the rigger who re-assembled didn't want to take responsibility and sign for someone else's work. That particular SB requires a master rigger. Quotehe didn't transfer that information to the new packing card. To me, it would make sense to do that....Isn't this a standard practice?.. As a senior rigger, I have indicated on the packing data card that I have inspected a canopy and found it in compliance with a SB that didn't appear on that record. That way (1) I'm not taking credit or blame for the legality of who performed the work, (2) I'm verifying that the SB was performed (by someone other than me), and (3) I'm verifying that the entire system is airworthy and taking responsibility for that fact. Quote but Should I write on the reserve card that the SB has been done, but I don't know who did it or when? I don't see rigger on your profile so I wouldn't recommend writing anything on the packing data card other than personal information. I think that a rigger who inspects and packs it can note on the card that his/her inspection revealed that the SB had been completed. The anonymity of the rigger who performed the work will be obvious and needn't be emphasized in writing. That way, when you're checking in at a new DZ or boogie, it's a matter of record and nobody will have to unpack to find out if the reserve canopy is airworthy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #5 April 2, 2004 The rigger I worked with, for my Senior 'ticket' had me fill-out the packing card, listing work done SB's(when required) etc., but, he signed it. I would say, in the situation you described, if it were me, I'd show that the SB had been complied with but, I wouldn't sign my name next to it or list my seal symbol by it. I would only sign for the work I actually did, including SB compliance. I agree also with what was said in this thread about keeping all previous packing data cards together. This, shows a history of the parachute. There was a time, when this was 'requested' on the packing data card. For what it's worth. Chuck Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cssriggers 0 #6 April 2, 2004 QuoteQuoteReally the data card should follow the canopy rather than the container (IIRC) I don't believe this is necessarily a rule. I think many riggers prefer it, but I'm not sure it's standard. And if the packing card follow the reserve, how do you log a SB for the container? The official packing data card corresponds to & should travel with the reserve canopy. The system leaves a lot to be desired, and I understand your concerns. Ideally whoever assembled this H/C and reserve should have indicated that it was SB 1221 compliant. This info should have been on the data card that came with the reserve. IMO it's up to the rigger who repacks & recertifies the system to make sure the extra bar tacks are there, and the data panel on the reserve has been signed & dated by the rigger who has done the work. If you're assembling used gear, it's not hard to check out SBs and ADs, see if they've been done, and document that you've inspected the system and deem it airworthy. We had a similar situation recently - someone bought a Raven -M reserve via the Internet with no data card. Extra bar tacks on A & B lines were there, and data panel showed that the work had been done by Kevin McGuire (nice job Kevin -- and my wife is still jealous of your automatic bar tack machine.) In this instance it's easy to fill out a new card and indicate that the reserve is SB1221 compliant. We do document SBs and ADs done to the main container on the "reserve" data card as well. Hooknswoop's idea of separate cards for H/C and reserve is a great one. There are many SBs and ADs on H/C's. Also we've sent off many H/Cs for major harness adjustments, alterations, etc and this wouldn't be indicated unless we note it on the packing data card. Lots of food for thought. Ideally, people would never lose their packing data cards. Ideally, all riggers would document Cypres/FXC etc. maintenance and battery changes, and all AD and SB compliance on data cards. When they don't, you might be looking at the $$ for a repack .... but we need to make sure everyone's safe & airworthy.Alpha Mike Foxtrot, JHL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymedic 0 #7 April 2, 2004 correct me if I am wrong...but this was a mandatory changed into an optional SB... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #8 April 3, 2004 Quotecorrect me if I am wrong...but this was a mandatory changed into an optional SB... Their website says mandatory. They have a nice database lookup engine where you can enter the serial number of the canopy and it will show you if you are affected.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #9 April 3, 2004 Quotecorrect me if I am wrong...but this was a mandatory changed into an optional SB... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nobody told me about any change in the status of the Service Bulletin affecting Raven-M reserves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #10 April 4, 2004 Update - when I asked the jumper about it, he said that he had the original packing card. The rigger that re-assembled the rig gave it to him, rather than stapling it to the new reserve card, and he filed it away. He stated that the old card is falling apart, and wouldn't last long with the rig if it was taken out often. Any advice for repairing an old reserve card? Spell-o-tape?Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kris 0 #11 April 4, 2004 Get some laminating sheets from Wal-Mart and encase it in that. A photocopy would be a good thing, too.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
masterrig 1 #5 April 2, 2004 The rigger I worked with, for my Senior 'ticket' had me fill-out the packing card, listing work done SB's(when required) etc., but, he signed it. I would say, in the situation you described, if it were me, I'd show that the SB had been complied with but, I wouldn't sign my name next to it or list my seal symbol by it. I would only sign for the work I actually did, including SB compliance. I agree also with what was said in this thread about keeping all previous packing data cards together. This, shows a history of the parachute. There was a time, when this was 'requested' on the packing data card. For what it's worth. Chuck Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cssriggers 0 #6 April 2, 2004 QuoteQuoteReally the data card should follow the canopy rather than the container (IIRC) I don't believe this is necessarily a rule. I think many riggers prefer it, but I'm not sure it's standard. And if the packing card follow the reserve, how do you log a SB for the container? The official packing data card corresponds to & should travel with the reserve canopy. The system leaves a lot to be desired, and I understand your concerns. Ideally whoever assembled this H/C and reserve should have indicated that it was SB 1221 compliant. This info should have been on the data card that came with the reserve. IMO it's up to the rigger who repacks & recertifies the system to make sure the extra bar tacks are there, and the data panel on the reserve has been signed & dated by the rigger who has done the work. If you're assembling used gear, it's not hard to check out SBs and ADs, see if they've been done, and document that you've inspected the system and deem it airworthy. We had a similar situation recently - someone bought a Raven -M reserve via the Internet with no data card. Extra bar tacks on A & B lines were there, and data panel showed that the work had been done by Kevin McGuire (nice job Kevin -- and my wife is still jealous of your automatic bar tack machine.) In this instance it's easy to fill out a new card and indicate that the reserve is SB1221 compliant. We do document SBs and ADs done to the main container on the "reserve" data card as well. Hooknswoop's idea of separate cards for H/C and reserve is a great one. There are many SBs and ADs on H/C's. Also we've sent off many H/Cs for major harness adjustments, alterations, etc and this wouldn't be indicated unless we note it on the packing data card. Lots of food for thought. Ideally, people would never lose their packing data cards. Ideally, all riggers would document Cypres/FXC etc. maintenance and battery changes, and all AD and SB compliance on data cards. When they don't, you might be looking at the $$ for a repack .... but we need to make sure everyone's safe & airworthy.Alpha Mike Foxtrot, JHL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #7 April 2, 2004 correct me if I am wrong...but this was a mandatory changed into an optional SB... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #8 April 3, 2004 Quotecorrect me if I am wrong...but this was a mandatory changed into an optional SB... Their website says mandatory. They have a nice database lookup engine where you can enter the serial number of the canopy and it will show you if you are affected.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #9 April 3, 2004 Quotecorrect me if I am wrong...but this was a mandatory changed into an optional SB... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nobody told me about any change in the status of the Service Bulletin affecting Raven-M reserves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #10 April 4, 2004 Update - when I asked the jumper about it, he said that he had the original packing card. The rigger that re-assembled the rig gave it to him, rather than stapling it to the new reserve card, and he filed it away. He stated that the old card is falling apart, and wouldn't last long with the rig if it was taken out often. Any advice for repairing an old reserve card? Spell-o-tape?Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #11 April 4, 2004 Get some laminating sheets from Wal-Mart and encase it in that. A photocopy would be a good thing, too.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
