Which deployment system does your DZ use?

[riggerrob 643]

This string was hatched during another debate on pull-out vs. throw-out.

Which deployment system does your DZ for for first jump students?

Only instructors and riggers are allowed to post.

Tandem and freefall instructors are NOT allowed to post.

Over the last 22 years I have dropped students with most variations of static-line and IAD.
I can tell plenty of war stories, but the older and grumpier I get the fewer systems I am willing to work with. Now I only want to deal with direct bag and IAD, because they usually deploy before a student can tumble bad enough to interfere with deployment.

[nightjumps 1]

We use, 1, 2 & 3. Since there was no "Multiple Selections" allowed, I'll vote 3 (since its mostly)

Forgive my ignorance, but what the hell is number 4 and how does that work?!?!? Just thinking about that puckers me butt.

[jerry81 10]

No ratings here, but I work with students a lot and I doubt any instructor from my dz frequents these forums so;
-first-timers are put on a direct bag sl deployment
-after two or three stable exits the setup is changed so the static line just pulls the pin on a spring-loaded pc-equipped rig.

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[rigging65 0]

We use Tandem training (with the student pulling...the drogue release is positioned for them as it would on a BOC system) then directly to AFF with hand deploy throw-out style pilot chutes. The Tandems are not mandatory, you can go straight to AFF cat. A, but almost everyone does the Tandem progression.

The real skydiving world doesn't use ripcords on mains anymore, so why should students learn on a system that they are going to have to transition away from in 15 jumps or so? Teach the way you play, learn it once, and learn it correctly. We've had very good success with this (these) systems.

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[billvon 3,099]

I would also break that down into static line assist, spring-loaded PC and static line assist, throwout PC. My first DZ used the latter, Brown Field used the former until we switched to direct bag. All three have their pluses and minuses.

[BlindBrick 0]

We have three dedicated direct bag S/L rigs and eight Telesis that also are used for FF, so they utilize a S/L'ed pilot chute setup.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[Unstable 9]

I know this is an Instructor only thread, but I have been packing at my DZ for almost two years and will be an Instructor in about a month.

Our DZ used PC Assist Static Line Method. Our DZ has two arguments concerning this - First off our Chief Rigger has us route the SL differently than the Sunpath Manual states, Under the Top flap and out the left side, as opposed to out the right side and crossing over. Second, we have yet to standardize on the amount of velcro to use in the PC assist connection point. I personally use about 4" to 5", not quite the entire amount, as perscribed by my rigger.....

If my posting here in this thread is going to be a problem, let me know and I'll get out......

=========Shaun ==========

[Shivon 0]

Other - Single Operating System (SOS). Student pulls ripcord (where cutaway pad is on an experienced rig), which pulls pin covering flaps over a spring loaded pc. Other handle (where reserve handle is on an experienced rig) both cuts away the main and deploys reserve.

While the rig has its advantages, the downside is that the student has to hang on to the handle after deployment. Dropped handles are uncommon, but do occassionally happen.

[Kris 0]

IAD is what is used at my DZ. I like it much more that S/L.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[riggerrob 643]

Quote

I know this is an Instructor only thread, but I have been packing at my DZ for almost two years and will be an Instructor in about a month.

Our DZ used PC Assist Static Line Method. Our DZ has two arguments concerning this - First off our Chief Rigger has us route the SL differently than the Sunpath Manual states, Under the Top flap and out the left side, as opposed to out the right side and crossing over. Second, we have yet to standardize on the amount of velcro to use in the PC assist connection point. I personally use about 4" to 5", not quite the entire amount, as prescribed by my rigger.....

If my posting here in this thread is going to be a problem, let me know and I'll get out......

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Unstable,

You brought up several valid points.
We had similar problems with static-line routing in California City. If we routed the S/L out the upper left corner of the main container, it worked great out of the Cessna (right hand door), but when we shifted to the Twin Otter (left hand door), it would tear up the main inner top flap.
By the same token, if we routed the S/L out the upper right corner - for Twin Otter - and switched to Cessna, the other side of the inner top flap quickly wore out.
Later I learned even more about this phenomenon when I moved to Rigging Innovations and repaired dozens of Telesis student containers with frayed inner top flaps.
As for how much Velcro you mate on a static-line rig ... there is a minimum pull force specified in the Federal Air Regulations ... important on rounds and less important on squares. The key issue is creating enough tension to pull the pilotchute clear of a tumbling student.

[USPA 0]

We have the same problem, we fly both smaller cessna's as a C208B. Since we use the C208b for most of the jumps (left hand door), we exit the staticline right. But we do it at the bottom. (right side of the loop) This way, when we use the smallers cessna's we lessen the damage. Do watch the staticline line length though, we have direct bag with flex-pin and when the flexpin in pulled out of the loop, the staticline should still have a little slack between pin and flaps.

The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

[USPA 0]

I must confess I have only worked with the direct bag staticline. I prefer this system above anything else I have seen (and I did study alot of video's / pictures/ theorie of other systems) I only see 1 disadvantage of a properly setup direct bag system; When you screw up terrible with the staticline routing (go around mainlift webbing) you get a hang up which will never clear untill you cut. This is however highly unlikely, though I have seen it happen once. (Wasn't me )

The direct bag system is completly setup when boarding the plane, at which time stress level, for an instructor is lower than at student exit time. The only thing you have to attend to during student exit is staticline routing. (and the student of course.. ). Other systems in which the staticline activates a pilot chute is much more prone to student error; I've seen a number of video's of students grabbing and holding their PC's. With IAD, the number of things that can go wrong seems bigger to me, but I'm no expert (simply put more hassle, means more things can go wrong).

A proper direct bag setup IMHO is a flexpin setup.

The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

[skygod7777 0]

at the moment we use static line, a few pilot chute assists, and a few drirect bag.

but soon we will be switching to IAD, and converting all the rigs to BOC with the AFF pouches.

later

[BlindBrick 0]

Direct definately has it's advantages, but I think a big reason that pc-assist is so popular is that quite a few DZ's don't have the resources to have dedicated S/L gear and therefore their rigs must do double duty as S/L and FF gear.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[masher 1]

I haven't voted in the poll, as I'm not an instructor (as requested) but I will mention something about my DZ.

We take up first jump students for either SL or AFF. For SL, we use a direct bag. We can also use the same rig for free fall with a spring pilotchute and ripcord. Just unhook the SL from the dbag and attach the PC. Easy. Just make sure that you unhook the canopy from the bag when you go back to SL

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

My dad's DZ in Alabama uses PC assisted SL. Both military clubs in NC used direct bag SL until they recently switched to IAD (in a BOC). We don't really do SL at Raeford anymore, but if you "force" us, we will use one of our AFF rigs setup with a direct bag SL.

[riggerrob 643]

Quote

I haven't voted in the poll, as I'm not an instructor (as requested) but I will mention something about my DZ.

We take up first jump students for either SL or AFF. For SL, we use a direct bag. We can also use the same rig for free fall with a spring pilotchute and ripcord. Just unhook the SL from the dbag and attach the PC. Easy. Just make sure that you unhook the canopy from the bag when you go back to SL

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Nice in theory ...
And yes the manual for the Telesis student rig gives a etailed explanation of the procedure(color-coded components, etc.) for quickly converting a rig from freefall to static-line configuration, but somehow in the heat of a busy Saturday afternoon, no-one can remember where the manual is .... and I have had to a couple of student main canopies that had the static-line attached incorrectly.
Awkward in practice ...

[riggerrob 643]

Forgive my ignorance, but what the hell is number 4 and how does that work?!?!? Just thinking about that puckers me butt.

[katiebear21 0]

Quote

We don't really do SL at Raeford anymore, but if you "force" us, we will use one of our AFF rigs setup with a direct bag SL.

Actually, I think Raeford will be pushing SL more this summer in order to compete with the military clubs - most privates can't afford AFF. Just a hunch.

Katie
Get your PMS glass necklace here

[masher 1]

But it's easy...

Unhook bridle from PC, unhook bridle from canopy. Hook SL to dbag.


It's a little more difficult going the other way. You either get lucky, and have the attachment point at the grommet hole in the dbag, or you have to unbag, attach bridle and rebag the canopy.


Even _I_ can do it.

(This isn't meant to be a sarcastic post, it is serious...)

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[BlindBrick 0]

Quote

But it's easy...

Unhook bridle from PC, unhook bridle from canopy. Hook SL to dbag.

Please don't think this is an attack on your dz's packers, but this practice seems scary. I try to plan for the worst and doing that I can easily imagine on a busy weekend some packer connecting the PC to the bag but forgetting to connect the bag to the canopy.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[USPA 0]

Our system of changing gear is quite simple. When nothing is attached to canopy it is setup for staticline. (We have direct bag) We can also attach a complete springloaded setup. Only thing we have to attach is the bridle to attachment point on top of canopy.

The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

[indyz 1]

Quote

Please don't think this is an attack on your dz's packers, but this practice seems scary. I try to plan for the worst and doing that I can easily imagine on a busy weekend some packer connecting the PC to the bag but forgetting to connect the bag to the canopy.

If the PC is connected to the bag but not the canopy, then you just have a freebag on your main.