Confirmation Questions: How to: SL setup and Buildings

[dmcoco84 5]

Hopefully sometime in the near future I will be able to do a building jump. I may also decide to do a static line on this particular site so I was hoping to confirm some information. I have talked to a few people in the past about both topics and have also looked at online resources (BASE WIKI, and tried to find previous posts {saw Chad’s SL post that is also on Wiki}) but would like to see what people on the board say about these subjects.

SL: From what I see there are a few different ways of doing a static line. The one I think I will feel most comfortable with is the use of a carabiner put through the bridle loop below the PC attachment point and 80 lb break cord with a surgeons knot tied to the object. I was shown how to set up a static line by an experienced jumper but I want to make sure of my info because it was dark and a while ago that I was shown.

Now my question is, first: Any negative issues with that method of SL? Second: Is there any specific type of carabiner that should be used. I don’t know anything about them other than to make sure it has the locking mod, so if someone could tell me what proper type (size, strength) to buy that would be fantastic.

Also regardless of whether I am able to jump a building anytime soon, I do desire to do a few SL jumps off an A just so I am familiar and comfortable doing then on other objects.

BUILDINGS:
As for a building, I have been told that you always attempt to exit from the corner. Exiting from the middle is not “unsafe” (like a cliff jump) but a corner is much more desirable due to the greater area from recovery from an off heading opening.

My question for buildings are in reference to wind conditions which I do not remember the specifics. There is nothing listed on Wiki and I have not been able to find previous posts about this subject.

Question: What winds directions are safe and what directions are unsafe?

Thanks!!
Coco


P.S. Apologize if this has been asked before but I did make an effort to find previous postings and I didn’t find what I needed.

[LukeH 0]

no need to use a carabiner, just use a rapid link.
it doesn't even have to be a skydiving grade link. go to a local hardware store and buy any link. it's not going to break before the break cord.

more importantly, don't tie directly onto the building. tie some strong cord onto the building and tie the breakcord onto that (sharpe corners would cause the breakcord to break easier) if you are worried about leaving the rope behind, do a search for "carry with you" static lines.

yes the corner would be preferable for the reasons you mentioned assuming everything else is equal. light winds are usually preferred for buildings because there is likely to be lots of turbulance around the building. obviously you would want to avoid a head wind, and a tail wind is probably going to swirl around the building so i think a light cross wind would be best....

just my thoughts, i don't know shit...

[sabre210 0]

A Carabiner on a s/l jump?? Totally unnecessary and just another thing to a/ be thinking about and b/ fuck up. Keep it simple. You do not need to use a carabiner at the bridle attachment and it potentially can a/fail b/snag c/affect the pilot chute inflating properly should it be required in the event of a premature loading, d/ cause damage to the object . The benefits are???? prevents wear and tear???


With regards to winds, if you have to ask, then you're not ready to be jumping a building in my opinion - not in the near future even. You ask about direction but not about strength, so any answers you get are meaningless. A headwind on a building???? of 1mph......could be okay, 12mph.....same answer????

A crosswind on a building....how likely is it going to affect your heading performance.....2mph????......15mph?????

A tailwind on a building....jumping into the wind shadow....okay, but you might have to fly out of it to make the landing. What happens when you get hit by the wind as it wraps around the B and catches you on the other side???

Take it easy Coco. Put the building to the back burner for now, learn your craft THEN close the word. That's my friendly advice.

[nicknitro71 0]

Do a search on carry with you static line before you kill yourself

Memento Audere Semper

903

[dmcoco84 5]

Quote

A Carabiner on a s/l jump?? Totally unnecessary and just another thing to a/ be thinking about and b/ fuck up. Keep it simple. You do not need to use a carabiner at the bridle attachment and it potentially can a/fail b/snag c/affect the pilot chute inflating properly should it be required in the event of a premature loading, d/ cause damage to the object . The benefits are???? prevents wear and tear???

True, true good points? The carabiner method is coming from a guy with 400 jumps. So...I figured it was ok but I'm glad I posted to get the opinions of others because from what you say, I’d have to agree against it.

Quote

With regards to winds, if you have to ask, then you're not ready to be jumping a building in my opinion - not in the near future even. You ask about direction but not about strength, so any answers you get are meaningless. A headwind on a building???? of 1mph......could be okay, 12mph.....same answer????

A crosswind on a building....how likely is it going to affect your heading performance.....2mph????......15mph?????

A tailwind on a building....jumping into the wind shadow....okay, but you might have to fly out of it to make the landing. What happens when you get hit by the wind as it wraps around the B and catches you on the other side???

Yea I re-read what I posted and I kinda messed that up. Not to make excuses, but I am at work and posting at the same time so I left out some stuff. Not only the strength part but I also meant to say, "Wind info other than the obvious”, I apologize. I’m not saying that you aren’t correct that I may not be ready but I did leave that out by mistake. I do also have the packet that APEX uses for their first jump course (borrowed from a friend that took the course) that I read so I was just looking to see if there were any less than obvious things dealing with buildings than what would be beneficial to know.

Quote

Take it easy Coco. Put the building to the back burner for now, learn your craft THEN close the word. That's my friendly advice.

Thank you for your advice and time. I'd rather ask and receive constructive criticism and info than to not ask at all.

Coco

[Faber 0]

Quote

Do a search on carry with you static line before you kill yourself

what he said

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[dmcoco84 5]

I think the person that showed me this was a jumper who has been around a while. Check out the pic that was on BASE Wiki. Looks like the way he showed me used current bridle but kept the idea of the carabiner.

Note: Just posting the picture, not saying its ok. I definitally see your points against using it.

Coco

[dmcoco84 5]

Quote

Do a search on carry with you static line before you kill yourself

Damn that is a nice idea!


SO where can I get one!!??

[sabre210 0]

Coco

Just to be absolutely clear, the setup you post will of course work. The carabiner in the system will work. The rapide link will work. The pertinent question is, are they necessary. The unequivicable answer is NO, they are not. How do I know? Because thousands upon thousands of s/l jumps have been performed without them.
The more you complicate the system, the more things there are to keep an eye on. We're all fallible, we all have stress at the exit point. The fewer things there are to fuck up when in this stressful situation the better. Will a carabiner/rapide fail.... Almost certainly not. But if they're not in the system they certainly can not.
One further thing. A rapide link (more so than a crab) will act on the breakcord as a sharp edge due to it's smaller diameter. This could cause a breakage prior to full canopy extraction and line stretch.

The wind issue on a building. I'm wasn't trying to be funny or cranky. The wind strength really is the bigger issue in my opinion. Anything above a light light wind from any direction is probably bad news. At the very least you're chipping away at the percentages in your favour

ian

[hemphog 0]

I use a similar setup for my static line (about 4.5 feet long). No carabiner, just a loop about 8 inches from the P/C. Tie the breakcord to it and some strong cord that would remain on the object.

No advice on a building tho. Never done. Good luck bro.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ya we'll rape the local objects, and maybe do some jumps too!"

[dmcoco84 5]

Quote

Just to be absolutely clear, the setup you post will of course work. The carabiner in the system will work. The rapide link will work. The pertinent question is, are they necessary. The unequivicable answer is NO, they are not. How do I know? Because thousands upon thousands of s/l jumps have been performed without them.
The more you complicate the system, the more things there are to keep an eye on. We're all fallible, we all have stress at the exit point. The fewer things there are to fuck up when in this stressful situation the better. Will a carabiner/rapide fail.... Almost certainly not. But if they're not in the system they certainly can not.

This being said, what S/L system do you prefer? Is your setup like that of the one in hemphogs picture or do you use the “carry with you static line”? Or something else?

What is most commonly use static line setup?

Quote

One further thing. A rapide link (more so than a crab) will act on the breakcord as a sharp edge due to it's smaller diameter. This could cause a breakage prior to full canopy extraction and line stretch.

Could this also be a factor with a carabiner?

Quote

The wind issue on a building. I'm wasn't trying to be funny or cranky. The wind strength really is the bigger issue in my opinion. Anything above a light light wind from any direction is probably bad news. At the very least you're chipping away at the percentages in your favour

Right! I totally brain farted on the wind strength. I do remember being told that buildings should only in light winds. I assume that is the reason why I didn't add that in. Like I said I was moreso looking for the less than obvious wind factors with buildings.

Thanks!!
Coco

[sabre210 0]

Generally my static line setup is similar to hemphogs with the exception that i don't use a rope, i use my bridle. Why?? Because I often haven't decided on whether i'm going to freefall or static line the object until i'm at the exit point. If i look over the edge and don't like what i see i'll change the plan and opt to s/l. No special setup, just pull the pilot chute out, larkshead a loop in the bridle and get my bootlace on the case.

I find it best to be adaptable on the exit point. If there's a bit of wind about, i tend to not use a loop further down the bridle as this allows for the pilot chute to blow about and billow around. In this case i tie directly through the bridle loop right at the attachment point with the pilot chute. This keeps the pilot chute very close to the tie off point but controls it to a degree.

Finally I always use a tailgate bungee to stow all the excess bridle between my rig and the tie off. Having 9feet of bridle blowing around your legs can be very offputting to say the least.

I also prefer velcro rigs on static line jumps.

ian

[dmcoco84 5]

Quote

Generally my static line setup is similar to hemphogs with the exception that i don't use a rope, i use my bridle. Why?? Because I often haven't decided on whether i'm going to freefall or static line the object until i'm at the exit point. If i look over the edge and don't like what i see i'll change the plan and opt to s/l. No special setup, just pull the pilot chute out, larkshead a loop in the bridle and get my bootlace on the case.

Cool! I don’t really like the idea of using a rope like that so glad to hear you say that. I just wanna use my bridle.

Is the benefit of "larkshead a loop in the bridle and get my bootlace on the case." that you have less bridle to extend to pull out the canopy? Why not just always go from the loop below the PC bridle attachment point?

Quote

I find it best to be adaptable on the exit point. If there's a bit of wind about, i tend to not use a loop further down the bridle as this allows for the pilot chute to blow about and billow around. In this case i tie directly through the bridle loop right at the attachment point with the pilot chute. This keeps the pilot chute very close to the tie off point but controls it to a degree.

Finally I always use a tailgate bungee to stow all the excess bridle between my rig and the tie off. Having 9feet of bridle blowing around your legs can be very offputting to say the least.

Quote

I also prefer velcro rigs on static line jumps.

yea.... I only Only jump Pin. Don't ahve velcro.

Coco

[base736 0]

Quote

Just to be absolutely clear, the setup you post will of course work. The carabiner in the system will work. The rapide link will work. The pertinent question is, are they necessary.

I'll leap in here and defend the setup. That's my gear in the picture -- ain't she pretty?
I've used the setup shown on a number of local objects in which going back for gear is not a big deal. The carabiner is there because I want to tie off to a piece of cord (for the "sharp stuff" reasons already mentioned), but don't want to dick around at the exit point tying break cord and a static rope. With the setup as shown, the loop of 7mm can be tossed around the anchor point, clipped into the carabiner, and you're good to go. Presto.

Is it necessary? No. Convenient? Sometimes. Does it complicate the system, making the PC more likely to fail? Absolutely not -- the carabiner is left behind at the anchor.

[dmcoco84 5]

Quote

Is it necessary? No. Convenient? Sometimes. Does it complicate the system, making the PC more likely to fail? Absolutely not -- the carabiner is left behind at the anchor.

The carabiner gets left behind?? In the one I was shown you tied the break cord to the objects and the carabiner, and the carabiner was through the bridle/PC attachment point loop. The only thing left behind is the cord.

So what is better? Does your way just make setting up faster? You can have the break cord pre tied and achoring is faster?

Coco

[base736 0]

Quote

So what is better? Does your way just make setting up faster? You can have the break cord pre tied and achoring is faster?

Right. And in cold weather, doesn't leave you tying finicky knots at the exit point. The "carry-along" style is probably better if you can get your hands on one or build one yourself. I've done maybe a couple dozen static line jumps using the setup in the picture. Never used a carry-along.

I would not advise attaching a carabiner to the bridle for any reason. Heavy stuff near the PC, or on the bridle at all, is bad juju.

[dmcoco84 5]

Quote

Quote

So what is better? Does your way just make setting up faster? You can have the break cord pre tied and achoring is faster?

Right. And in cold weather, doesn't leave you tying finicky knots at the exit point. The "carry-along" style is probably better if you can get your hands on one or build one yourself. I've done maybe a couple dozen static line jumps using the setup in the picture. Never used a carry-along.

I would not advise attaching a carabiner to the bridle for any reason. Heavy stuff near the PC, or on the bridle at all, is bad juju.

Yea thats a good point. Having the carabiner on the bridle would hinder its ability to do its job if the break cord prematurly broke. I didn't think of that!


Edit to add:

Quote

The "carry-along" style is probably better if you can get your hands on one or build one yourself

Well I know I can't make one but anyone know if BASE manufacturers sell them?

[sabre210 0]

Hi 736

I agree. My comment was based on coco's description of threading the crab through the bridle. Not my idea of a good idea. The crab on the end of the anchor point, i can see more point to - IF you have the luxury of going back up and removing it after you jump - which you seem to have.

Like i said, i would personally always choose the system with the least amount of components necessary. Fewer things to overlook or forget or do wrong. That's just me, I'm fallible and I approach my jumps assuming if it's fuck-up-able then I'm the man to do it.

Coco. The rope vs bridle works, it just doesn't lend itself to changing the plan if you need to, unless you're happy doing a complete reconfig on the exit point - which actually you should be. Remember, on some jumps where the landing area is tight and at the foot of the object, having more altitude and canopy time doesn't often help you. You have to burn off that altitude. On these occasions what might at first have looked like a s/l jump could soon morph into a freefall jump. I like to keep all my options open and using the bridle achieves this.

This isn't hypothetical. On Friday just gone , me and Dan the Man were on a 200ft B. It could have been ff or s/l. The ff option meant a low opening and possible brawl with trees and lamposts, the s/l option meant a potential overshoot of the landing area onto railway lines if you didn't get on it quickly and start sinking the canopy. In the end Dan chose to s/l from 180ft off a different side of the building into a landing area we had never even considered until we saw it from the roof. I chose to climb down and not jump. A decision I think was probably wise (for me).

Have a plan but be prepared to change it.

[base736 0]

Quote

That's just me, I'm fallible and I approach my jumps assuming if it's fuck-up-able then I'm the man to do it.

Ah, see, that's where we differ. I'm infallible.
Absolutely, the simplest system, all other factors being equal, is the best. The system in the picture above has its advantages, but nobody likes to leave hardware behind (though I did have a 'biner recovered by somebody out east a year after he and I jumped a local crane). Carry-along is the way to go, mostly. As I recall, DexterBase was offering the things for free to anybody who would send him postage, or something.

Edit to add: Balance in all things. I have had far more good jumps (in the sense of going as they were intended) than bad (in the sense of, well, not).

[dmcoco84 5]

Cool thanks! Yea I'm gonna go with the carry away. Looks like a very smart way to go! I Pm'ed nicknitro, his website says he make's them, I'll email dexter too. Thanks Bro!

Coco

[leroydb 0]

I use a diff method If I dont want to leave a trace on the object...

normal breakcord tied with a fisherman knot, then tie a small overhand loop on one part (making 2 loops, 1 big and 1 smaller)

using a rapid link on the bridal, put one loop on the rapid link, wrap the whole SL around the object, and put the other loop back into the rapidlink.

in theory the SL will break on the bigger side and the smaller loop (not broke) will pull the Sl off the object, still being connected to the rapidlink.

might draw a pic later tonight....

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[dantheman 0]

bootlaces- you gotta love 'em!

DTM.

[Faber 0]

Quote

might draw a pic later tonight....

please do so

Stay safe
Stefan Faber