rickjump1 0 #1 September 20, 2005 I finally got to jump my Troll out of an airplane and I did it legal. It was a pain in the ass switching to a skydiving container. Why not have D rings or something similar for a reserve? The D rings could be used for repelling or rescue attachment points. It was fun. It was not base, but it was still fun.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #2 September 21, 2005 Quote Why not have D rings or something similar for a reserve? I dunno. Because you didn't order them? Asylum lists them as a $20 option on their Price List. In the U.S., the entire system has to be TSO'd to be legal. As far as I know, no BASE manufacturer has yet gone to the (considerable) expense and effort to get the harness/container system TSO'd. If you search this forum, you can find a bunch of discussion about that, including, if memory serves, some discussion about the Perigee containers going through that process in Germany.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cornishe 0 #3 September 21, 2005 There are loops on my harness (Asylum/CR) to add hardware for a chestmount reserve. The Asylum harnesses are also approved for legal use in Germany. I know of one person jumping their Warlock (ApexBase) with a chestmount but dont know anything about the harness myself. No base harness i know of is "legal" for use in the US anyway, but adding a chestmount reserve to the PROPER attachement points will probably get you an ok from the DZO. Also you can maybe fall into a gray area with Asylum harnesses as a foreigner is allowed to use his equipment here and follow his own countries reserve packing rules, etc. FAR 105: Use of single-harness, dual-parachute systems. No person may conduct a parachute operation ... unless that system has...one approved single person harness and container... Edited to Add: Fucking Tom, you beat me to it. :-) Also from http://www.asylumbase.com/harness.htm... The Perigee series of containers, using our harness design, is the only US made BASE rig to carry the certification of the German DFV (Deutscher Fallschirmsport Verband e. V.) making it legal for use in Germany. .Abbie Mashaal Skydive Idaho Snake River Skydiving TandemBASE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #4 September 21, 2005 Thank you both for the response. Wish I had thought about this a little earlier.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asylum 0 #5 September 21, 2005 Thanks Abbie, You are correct. _M www.asylumbase.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lifewithoutanet 0 #6 September 21, 2005 Martin, What did you have to go through in order to get that TSO'd in Germany, and how similar (or different) is their certification process to the FAA's? -C. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikePelkey 0 #7 September 21, 2005 _____________________________________________ Why not have D rings or something similar for a reserve? _____________________________________________ I'm rather an old timer and I have been thinking the same thing. Obviously the old 24' chest mount reserves are extremely simple and very quick to open. What could possibly be a problem with wearing one just in case you may need it? I'm sure someone will provide an answer that makes all the sense in the world (making this a dumb question). I truly doubt that BASE jumpers omit the reserve simply because they are too cool.In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #8 September 21, 2005 I just got some email from a base jumper who had D rings installed after he bought the rig. He skydives with it. Maybe it's time to get base harnesses tso'd. I used those 24' chest chutes myself at one time. Wonder about modern ones.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #9 September 21, 2005 Quote Obviously the old 24' chest mount reserves are extremely simple and very quick to open. What could possibly be a problem with wearing one just in case you may need it? A couple thoughts: (1) It greatly impedes your track. The belly mount is right where you need clean airflow. (2) Your likely to be too short on altitude or time to use it. (3) The major problems in BASE all have to do with object strike--not the lack of a reserve. Adding a reserve to the system is fairly unnecessary (look up the sorcerer BASE rig, which had a reserve, and you'll see that it has never gained in popularity, mostly for this reason). (4) 99% of us have never trained in how to use a belly mount reserve, and haven't built it into our reflexes. BTW, I've got an old belly mount that belongs to Randy Harrison, and once belonged to Carl Boenish. I've played with it a few times, and it still freaks me out.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #10 September 21, 2005 Quote Also you can maybe fall into a gray area with Asylum harnesses as a foreigner is allowed to use his equipment here and follow his own countries reserve packing rules, etc. This applies to foreign manufactured gear only. Since Asylum is making their gear on US soil they are not excluded from that requirement is my understanding. Some DZO's might let you skydive it... but only those that are not informed about the minor details of the FAR's and TSO requirements. With out it being TSO'd it is technically a FAR violation to take the harness out of an airplane. This is an issue if you ever get ramp checked by an inspector that is worth his salt, most times though you could probally slip it by if you wanted to that bad.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base283 0 #11 September 21, 2005 I was part of the team doing drop test with the Perigee. It was basically done to the German version of TSO-C23-D, with 135kg @ 200KNOTS with a FOX canopy. @ Rickjump1. If one learns rigging, a canopy swapout could easily be a 10mn task plus your safety is enhanced because you know and understand more about the equipment. take care, space Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikePelkey 0 #12 September 21, 2005 _____________________________________ A couple thoughts: (1) It greatly impedes your track. The belly mount is right where you need clean airflow. (2) Your likely to be too short on altitude or time to use it. (3) The major problems in BASE all have to do with object strike--not the lack of a reserve. Adding a reserve to the system is fairly unnecessary (look up the sorcerer BASE rig, which had a reserve, and you'll see that it has never gained in popularity, mostly for this reason). (4) 99% of us have never trained in how to use a belly mount reserve, and haven't built it into our reflexes. ___________________________________ I hadn't thought about (1) clean airflow for better tracking, but I do tend to disagree with 2-4. My observation is that malfuctions do occur with ram-air technology. Having a reserve to attempt to get open to save your life when all else fails, regardless of altitude or training makes sense to me.In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. - "RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB http://www.johnny Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hannes1 0 #13 September 21, 2005 attached a picture of the reserve container attached with d- rings to the perrigee rig. we have to wear that on some legal base events in germany, to look cool. it was not in use till now, only balloon jump tested. the canopy is a round ..speed brake ..not for flying. the reserve container is not designed for super-tracking. the french rig ZAK from adrenalinebase has also TSO in germany, together with the TSO´d troll complete legal package in germany. take care hannes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cesslon 0 #14 September 21, 2005 in the 2001 ABA vid a d00d jumps off the telecom (not sure of name sorry) tower in Malaysia and deploys his canopy then cuts away with reserve, reserve looks as though it only took 30ft or so to be fully inflated. although I could be way off on that estimate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base736 0 #15 September 21, 2005 Quote I hadn't thought about (1) clean airflow for better tracking, but I do tend to disagree with 2-4. What's to disagree with? With respect to (4), I certianly haven't trained a bellymount into my procedures, and I suspect the same is true of most other jumpers. With respect to (2), most of the jumps I do around here are a 3-second delay with impact at ~5 seconds, and I suspect 1-2 seconds is too little to deploy a bellymount. With respect to (3), my recollection of Nick's list is that object strike does, in fact, dominate, and that other situations in which a reserve would not have helped (low pull / no pull, for instance) make up the bulk of the remainder. Edit to add: Of course, a partial mal would be slower and would give more time. Most partials are already treated by, for instance, the line release mod and WLO toggles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE813 0 #16 September 21, 2005 Quote There are loops on my harness (Asylum/CR) to add hardware for a chestmount reserve. . The Gargoyle also has loops built for a seperable D-Ring chest mount reserve. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #17 September 21, 2005 Quote The Gargoyle also has loops built for a seperable D-Ring chest mount reserve. Did you have to special order that? How much did they cost? My Gargoyle doesn't have them, and I don't see them on the options list on the Morpheus web site. Rickjumps, what kind of rig do you have?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #18 September 21, 2005 does that mean a german citizen can use that at a US DZ since that it is TSO'd in Germany? or how does that rule work...Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #19 September 21, 2005 Quote in the 2001 ABA vid a d00d jumps off the telecom (not sure of name sorry) tower in Malaysia and deploys his canopy then cuts away with reserve, reserve looks as though it only took 30ft or so to be fully inflated. That's a Sorcerer. The reserve is essentially direct bagged off the main risers.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MB38 0 #20 September 21, 2005 The Sorcerer video is up on Skydiving Movies.I really don't know what I'm talking about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE813 0 #21 September 21, 2005 Quote Quote The Gargoyle also has loops built for a seperable D-Ring chest mount reserve. Did you have to special order that? How much did they cost? My Gargoyle doesn't have them, and I don't see them on the options list on the Morpheus web site. They come as standard. They are not (at all) obvious, but they are there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cornishe 0 #22 September 21, 2005 Quote does that mean a german citizen can use that at a US DZ since that it is TSO'd in Germany? or how does that rule work... As Phreezone said, the rule applys to foreign manufactured gear, so unless Mr. Tilly moves to Mexico its technically a no. Also, a good question for Marty... The harness is cert'd but are any of the containers? Does Germany care about certifying containers? The FAA here in the US as I understand it, treats both components separately. You can't just rework your javelin to have the original harness and a garbage bag on it... PS- IT'S MY 3 BUCKS! I'LL JUMP WHAT I WANT MUTHAFUKA!!!! .Abbie Mashaal Skydive Idaho Snake River Skydiving TandemBASE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #23 September 21, 2005 Quote They come as standard. They are not (at all) obvious, but they are there. Maybe I'm confused. Are we talking about loops to hold tersh rings, or the tersh rings/loops themselves? My Gargoyle (and my Vision) has the folded bits of loop sewn behind the MLW, so that you could slide a removable D ring in there and screw it down. It doesn't have actual built in tersh rings (like the option available on the Perigees).-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pbla4024 0 #24 September 21, 2005 Quote Quote Quote The Gargoyle also has loops built for a seperable D-Ring chest mount reserve. Did you have to special order that? How much did they cost? My Gargoyle doesn't have them, and I don't see them on the options list on the Morpheus web site. They come as standard. They are not (at all) obvious, but they are there. Quite tricky to find, close to lower edge of mud flap. Fido Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #25 September 21, 2005 >>(1) It greatly impedes your track. The belly mount is right where you need clean airflow. << They didn't all look like what John Wayne wore. We did have semi-wedge shaped chest mounts like Bird's Velcro Rip-off, and the Pop-top containers in the late 70s. You could almost surf on them. I'd think today a really aerodynamic set of gut gear could be made. When you think of distributing the gear around one's body, especially for vRw, wedge shaped gut gear could be the friggin' bomb . . . NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
