Packing Question

[dmcoco84 5]

Hey Everyone, I’m going to need to start packing slider up soon and I want to make sure of a few things. As of right now, with slider down, I am packing pretty much the way Jimmy packs on the Vertigo Packing Video (deep brakes, tailgate, 45 degree roll on stabilizers, first bite before my figure 8’s and everything else pretty basic). I have seen a few other ways and also one way that was really fast but I’m not really ready to start experimenting with my pack job just yet.

For packing slider up:

#1 – I don’t have a slider gate on my slider. Is the slider gate necessary or can it just be packed like a reserve? Flake it out, quarter your slider and on from there.

#2 – 45 degree rolls on the stabilizers too? My buddy thought to just do it like a reserve where you don’t do that? Does it matter either way?

#3 – Anything else special that I need to know about that goes along with packing slider up? Besides using shallow breaks.

Thanks,
D

[base736 0]

I've done a number of slider-up jumps, no slidergate. As I recall, the frequency of lineovers on a carefully-packed canopy goes down dramatically when the slider is up. Which isn't to say that the slidergate isn't a good idea, but it's probably not sport death to jump without.

I've never folded my stabilizers 45 degrees, slider up or down, and I've never been quite sure why people do it at all. Again, I wouldn't worry about it (clearly, I don't).

When I'm switching to slider up, I make sure of a few things:

1. Slider up (of course)
2. Shallow brakes
3. Lines through the guide rings
4. Lines through the slider grommets

I believe that's all there is to that. I'm a big fan of using both direct and indirect control on the slider. Direct control, in particular, seems to slow the openings considerably (which isn't to say that they don't snap open respectably anyway).

[pBASEtobe 0]

You can use masking tape as a tailgate slider up if you want.

[TomAiello 26]

It's easier if you change as few things as possible from your slider down pack job. Trying to do the micro-reefing, or 45 degree folds, or whatever, slightly differently is just going to make things more confusing.

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#1 – I don’t have a slider gate on my slider. Is the slider gate necessary or can it just be packed like a reserve? Flake it out, quarter your slider and on from there.

That's fine. You don't need to use any kind of slidergate/tailgate control. If you want to, be sure you know which one you are using, and the pros and cons of it.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "slidergate"? I've seen that term used to describe several different things. Personally, I'm not a fan of the "take a bight of control lines" style "slidergate" because I believe it changes the line trim and distorts the canopy during the opening sequence.

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#2 – 45 degree rolls on the stabilizers too? My buddy thought to just do it like a reserve where you don’t do that? Does it matter either way?

It doesn't matter very much. I personally don't use the 45 degree folds on any of my pack jobs (slider up or slider down). Different riggers pack reserves differently--just like BASE jumpers--and some do and some do not use those folds.

For simplicity, I'd do the 45's, or the rolls, or whatever, exactly as you do it slider down.

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#3 – Anything else special that I need to know about that goes along with packing slider up? Besides using shallow breaks.

Basically, when you pack slider up, it's almost exactly the same pack job as slider down. You use shallow brakes, instead of deep, and you set the brakes differently (because you use the keeper rings and route through the grommets). Other than that, just substitute bringing the slider up, and quartering it, where you would close the tailgate slider down.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[dmcoco84 5]

Quote

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "slidergate"? I've seen that term used to describe several different things. Personally, I'm not a fan of the "take a bight of control lines" style "slidergate" because I believe it changes the line trim and distorts the canopy during the opening sequence.

On the Vertigo Video Jimmy has a rubber band on the trailing edge of the slider that he puts 1 inch of brake lines in. He called that the slidergate. Other than that I have no other knowlege of what a slider gate is.


Thanks for your help everyone!

[TomAiello 26]

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...a rubber band on the trailing edge of the slider that he puts 1 inch of brake lines in. He called that the slidergate.

That's the method I don't like.

I prefer either:

(a) using a tailgate in addition to the slider (I don't recommend this if you are using a large hole mesh slider, although I do it myself fairly regularly);

(b) using masking tape to simulate a tailgate (which is fairly common);

(c) sewing a tailgate cord to the trailing edge of the slider and using that.


I like any of these methods better than the "bight of control lines" method because (as I said above) I think that the bight of lines can alter the trim of the canopy (by artificially shortening the control lines, and also by possibly doing so assymetrically if you aren't careful). I know that CR used to put a stow band on the trailing edge of the slider for this, and discontinued the practice sometime in the late 90's, for similar reasons.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[cornishe 0]

one last tidbit...

I like to use whats called "direct control" by some of the slider.

Larkshead a thin rubberband to one of your inner C lines, all the way up top. Then take a bite of your slider with it to keep the slider all the way up until inflation begins.

I've also triend putting the larkshead a bit lower on the line (still keeping the slider grommets all the way up to the stops) leaving room for a masking-tape-gate above the slider. Seemed to work fine.


.

Abbie Mashaal
Skydive Idaho
Snake River Skydiving
TandemBASE

[dmcoco84 5]

Which is my susceptible to line over? Some form of slider gate or not using anything?

[nicknitro71 0]

Slider up or slider down, the main propose of a pack job is to promote nose-first inflation. Tail first inflation is the number one cause of line overs if of course the line over was not already present in the pack, i.e. piss-poor packing.

All the followings help to promote nose -first inflation:

Leaving the center cell exposed.

Using the tailgate on slider down.

Using a slider.

Mirco reefing.

Folding all the three folds on top of the tail.

I use a normal tailgate sewn into the trailing edge of the slider when I pack slider up.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[aidclimber 0]

Check out the Ram-air owners manual at www.crmojo.com in the library on page 25 it shows a picture of how the slider sits in the pack job and a picture of how you use direct slider control

Cya
Sky

[mfnren 2]

How many of you roll the nose of your canopy for terminal jumps? Will rolling the nose,but leaving the center cell exposed slow the opening?

[base736 0]

I roll the three cells on either side of the center cell tightly maybe a half-dozen times (so that I've rolled them back to the centerline of the packjob). The center cell I pull tight down the center, rather than pulling it around the packjob as I do for slider-down.

I'm not sure how much of a role that plays in slowing the openings. As I indicated above, I've definitely noted a correlation between the number of wraps I take on direct control (I take three these days -- feel scary the first time, but really isn't) and the softness of the opening. I would probably go so far as to say that direct control is the single most important factor.

I think it goes without saying that hard openings are almost always better than none at all. I did a few jumps in Norway (without injuring myself) without rolling the nose or effectively using direct control before I started using both to slow things down, so if you're unsure, I'd recommend you err on the side of a brisk opening.

[TomAiello 26]

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Which is my susceptible to line over? Some form of slider gate or not using anything?

Probably not using anything.

But I believe the "take a bight of control lines" method degrades opening heading. And I'll take on heading with a 1 in 1000 chance of line over, rather than off heading and a 1 in 10,000 chance, any day.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 26]

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I roll the three cells on either side of the center cell tightly maybe a half-dozen times (so that I've rolled them back to the centerline of the packjob). The center cell I pull tight down the center, rather than pulling it around the packjob as I do for slider-down.

...and...

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How many of you roll the nose of your canopy for terminal jumps? Will rolling the nose,but leaving the center cell exposed slow the opening?

I use the technique described by 736 on virtually all my terminal openings, and also virtually all of my slider down subterminal openings. I rarely use it on slider up subterminal jumps. I believe this can encourage inflation through the center cell, which, in theory, ought to improve opening heading.

I haven't noticed any significant slowing on the slider down stuff (I've taken the "rolled cells" pack job under 200 feet as a free fall with good results).

At terminal, I'm not sure if the openings are slowed by it or not, but I can say that they are not too slow. As long as I'm not pulling extremely low (under 300' or so), I'm very happy with this pack job at terminal.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[mfnren 2]

do you use direct control on your slider for terminal or sub terminal slider up jumps tom?How many wraps?

[TomAiello 26]

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do you use direct control on your slider for terminal or sub terminal slider up jumps tom?How many wraps?

Terminal, always.

Subterminal, most of the time.

I use more wraps at terminal. I think that more wraps, and a larger bight, are quite effective at staging and "taming" terminal openings.

For subterminal, it's usually either one wrap and a folded (i.e. double) bight of slider, or two wraps on one piece of slider. Which of those I use depends on the trim of the particular canopy (i.e. where the slider meets the C line attachments).

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[mfnren 2]

Why do you dc on subterminal jumps?

[dmcoco84 5]

Are there any issues with using direct control with a large hole mesh or is it ok to using on both large and small?

[cornishe 0]

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Why do you dc on subterminal jumps?

For me, I feel the direct control works better to keep the slider uptop until inflation begins so it can do its job. I've heard (but never dealt with) the slider sliding straigt down prematurely.

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Are there any issues with using direct control with a large hole mesh or is it ok to using on both large and small?

No issues I'm aware of with direct control on large hole. I use it with no problems.

The only issue I've heard with large hole mesh is using a tailgate (piece of dacron) which may get caught in the slider and hold it up.


.

Abbie Mashaal
Skydive Idaho
Snake River Skydiving
TandemBASE

[RayLosli 11]

I e-mailed this to (mfnren) along with some other canopy mechanical input .
But I think I will put this up for anyone who has got the Newbie BASE Jumper, Slider-Up Shakes.
Who is scared shitless of Line-overs and Line Twist and Ball-Buster openings and Rightly so.
So if your already a Expert BASE Jumper No-Need to Read. Just Disregard.
...................
So you think you now how to BASE jump because you got a Hundred slider-down BASE Jumps ?
It's not like the 1-2-3 second delay Slider-Down - Wham-Bam. 7-cell BASE canopy you Grew to Love. BECAUSE Now Ha-Ha you put a Slider on it.
The 7-cell BASE Canopy can be a complex tool for Slider-Up BASE. With many Facets of Pressurization on the Slider-up Mode. Even though you pack the BASE Canopy Fabric, Slider-Down almost identical to the way you pack Slider-Up.

1st off. Slider-Up in BASE is an Art in itself. You need to Throw out the Majority of what you learned of Canopy Packing as a Skydiver.
To control opening pressurization speeds. Don't Roll the Nose / No Need for Small-Mesh or Sail-Sliders.
Also: the biggest wives-tale in town. so pull your fucking Skirts up and Leave in or Tack-in Permanently your Tail-Gate because there is no way in Hell it is ever going to get caught in your Large-Mesh Slider.

Look @ the Nose & size of your 7-cell Nose openings and Side-Porting. You can climb inside each cell.
Canopy Venting is nice-+ and has some presurization input on opening but the Nose is in Control of the Majority of Air Volume consumed at pressurization. It also Points the Direction you want to Fly In when Open. But this is NOT a double edged sword as most people think when try to Control opening speeds.
I, Like some others have learned how to control my opening speeds without Rolling the Canopy Nose.
I don't screw with the nose I just Directly Present It to the air-flow for Canopy-Pressurization. and to MAXIMIZE good Heading.
Open & Rap the center Nose around pack job and do not fold or role the end three on each side.

I control the majority of - Canopy Opening Delay Speed - with direct Slider control with Primary-Stow control / direct break-line control will give just a little extra delay @ different air speeds with different amounts of tape rap. / I use Tape in conjunction with Slider and Primary stow for the desired amount of delay I want. Slider-Up.

I Never use the Nose of Canopy for delay control / You are directly affecting Heading and pressurization @ the same time.
So Why Do It If you Don't have to ?
You can achieve what you want for Canopy Opening delay with direct slider control with primary stow control.

I get nice smooth openings at even the highest air speeds. Never overly snappy hard. Also nice Headings.
.

[dmcoco84 5]

Quote

But I think I will put this up for anyone who has got the Newbie BASE Jumper, Slider-Up Shakes.
Who is scared shitless of Line-overs and Line Twist and Ball-Buster openings and Rightly so.

The Slider-Up Shakes. I like that! Well for me its not so much that I am scared of problems, everyone will eventually have some crap they gotta deal with, just that I'd like to use the most reliable method to prevent them. I've got those WLO's so I'm more so concerned with openning forces.

Thanks for your input.

David

[ZegeunerLeben 0]

>>Nice one Ray!

[sky12345 0]

Can someone translate this to English?

Quote

So you think you now how to BASE jump because you got a Hundred slider-down BASE Jumps ?
It's not like the 1-2-3 second delay Slider-Down - Wham-Bam. 7-cell BASE canopy you Grew to Love. BECAUSE Now Ha-Ha you put a Slider on it.
The 7-cell BASE Canopy can be a complex tool for Slider-Up BASE. With many Facets of Pressurization on the Slider-up Mode. Even though you pack the BASE Canopy Fabric, Slider-Down almost identical to the way you pack Slider-Up.

1st off. Slider-Up in BASE is an Art in itself. You need to Throw out the Majority of what you learned of Canopy Packing as a Skydiver.
To control opening pressurization speeds. Don't Roll the Nose / No Need for Small-Mesh or Sail-Sliders.
Also: the biggest wives-tale in town. so pull your fucking Skirts up and Leave in or Tack-in Permanently your Tail-Gate because there is no way in Hell it is ever going to get caught in your Large-Mesh Slider.

Look @ the Nose & size of your 7-cell Nose openings and Side-Porting. You can climb inside each cell.
Canopy Venting is nice-+ and has some presurization input on opening but the Nose is in Control of the Majority of Air Volume consumed at pressurization. It also Points the Direction you want to Fly In when Open. But this is NOT a double edged sword as most people think when try to Control opening speeds.
I, Like some others have learned how to control my opening speeds without Rolling the Canopy Nose.
I don't screw with the nose I just Directly Present It to the air-flow for Canopy-Pressurization. and to MAXIMIZE good Heading.
Open & Rap the center Nose around pack job and do not fold or role the end three on each side.

I control the majority of - Canopy Opening Delay Speed - with direct Slider control with Primary-Stow control / direct break-line control will give just a little extra delay @ different air speeds with different amounts of tape rap. / I use Tape in conjunction with Slider and Primary stow for the desired amount of delay I want. Slider-Up.

I Never use the Nose of Canopy for delay control / You are directly affecting Heading and pressurization @ the same time.
So Why Do It If you Don't have to ?
You can achieve what you want for Canopy Opening delay with direct slider control with primary stow control.

[RayLosli 11]

maybe - FABER - can translate this for you to English.
.

[RhondaLea 4]

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Can someone translate this to English?

First of all, it's not English. It's Loslian, a unique language with exactly one speaker.

It's not that difficult to understand. Just close your eyes and listen.


In all seriousness, Ray makes perfect sense if you read it as if he were speaking to you, and what he writes (except when he's picking on me) is always worth reading.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb