sabr190 0 #1 February 12, 2004 I had my RSL altered, by this I mean the ring that goes to the reserve cable and excess lanyard past the the velcro under the reserve riser have been removed. Which makes it appear that I have a RSL, but in fact it does nothing more than decorate my riser now. I did this because when working with students and low-timers it kept the "why don't you have an RSL?" questions to a minimum. I think RSL's are a great safety item for students and low-timers, at least until they have the experinece to make the decision to have or not have one. Recently I was visiting a DZ and the person checking in my gear said that if my rig has an RSL it must be connected and function properly. Since I am not a rigger I have no idea if this is correct, does it have to be completely assembled and installed? I can find nothing in the FAR's about this. "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, or the one" - rehmwa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #2 February 12, 2004 I can offer you no source for the belief that your gear checker was incorrect other than the fact that tons of people choose to remove or disconnect the RSL for all kinds of reasons on rigs that were manufactured with one. My own rig currently has the RSL removed. ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
payback462 0 #3 February 12, 2004 QuoteI did this because when working with students and low-timers it kept the "why don't you have an RSL?" questions to a minimum. why would you want less people to ask about the pros and cons of using an RSL, i dont see how it would make for that big of a deal. i get the question occasionally and my answer is simple, "if i didnt fly an elliptical canopy, and i didnt have a camera helmet, my RSL would be on for every jump" yesterday i was talking to somebody with around 100 jumps and she said that she wasnt sure if she should keep her RSL hooked up or not. and i told her unless you have a reason to NOT use it, then you have every reason to USE IT! as far as having it hooked up and functioning, i think cutting off the ring is kinda dumb (if only for resale value sake) since if the shackle isnt connected its not going anywhere. ive never heard of a DZ where if RSL equipped it must be hooked up. i can understand where theyre coming from as far as a liability thing (followinf manf. instructions, but an RSL is designled to be able to be used or not used depending on the jump so its kinda dumb. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabr190 0 #4 February 12, 2004 <<>> As a S&TA I keep two copies of a four page article written by a manufacturer on the pros and cons of using an RSL, which I give to any student or 1000 jump skydiver who asks. By doing this I keep my personal opinions out of the decision making process of the student or 1000 jump skydiver. As your statement above is your opinion, which you gave to the 100 jumper, possibly affecting his or her decision. For safety concerns for inexperienced jumpers, RSL's are a great redundant safety system and it is easier to explain this if it appears I have one. Understand, I don't disagree with anyones decision to have an RSL. Back to the original question, since I noticed you are a senior rigger, is my fake RSL an infraction to any FAR? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #5 February 12, 2004 It may just be that DZ's rule. You the old "its my football" thing. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
payback462 0 #6 February 12, 2004 ahhh, ok as far as the whole fake RSL being illegal, i dont know of any direct violation, the only thing i can think of would be that it falls under the maintaining equipment to manufacturers standards. personally if somebody came to me asking to do this i wouldn't simply because its a waste of a perfectly good RSL setup if you ask me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabr190 0 #7 February 12, 2004 Thanks, I guess my next step will be to contact Subpath and ask them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites councilman24 37 #8 February 12, 2004 You'll get different versions from different riggers. There is no specific FAR language addressing this. But, installing a fake RSL may lead to liability issues with someone thinking there is an RSL when the really isn't. If there is an incident the FAA may ask why a non working part was installed. If asked as a rigger I probably wouldn't do this. Too many chances for questions. I usually insist that my customers have the RSL installed if there is one. If a rig does have an RSL installed, it leaves my shop hooked up. I don't care if they disconnect it (I disagree and jump one myself most jumps), and since they can I don't think I'm imposing any burden on them. I break this policy for some of my best friends and customers who I know won't use it. Some riggers believe they shouldn't remove a safety device no matter what. Some riggers don't care and do what ever the customer wants. If we ask the FAA half of the people won't like the answer. I do have a skydiver FAA inspector friend. If I get a chance I'll email him and ask him off the record. The PIA rigging committee members and others have this debate at every symposium. Some riggers are adament that it MUST be installed if so equipped. Others are adament they will do what the CUSTOMER wants. I'm kind of in the middle. Terry Urban S&TA ME Conf. Senior Rigger Chairman of the PIA Rigging Committee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sabr190 0 #9 February 12, 2004 Thanks Terry, I just want to make sure I am "legal" on this issue, I think I will just remove it completely for now, just to be on the safe side. I would be curious what your FAA friend has to say about it, please keep me posted. Thanks again. Bill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,107 #10 February 12, 2004 I recommend not leaving an RSL connected if it is non-functional. They can snag things during a cutaway; you are adding risk with no benefit by leaving it attached. Is that really worth avoiding questions? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
councilman24 37 #8 February 12, 2004 You'll get different versions from different riggers. There is no specific FAR language addressing this. But, installing a fake RSL may lead to liability issues with someone thinking there is an RSL when the really isn't. If there is an incident the FAA may ask why a non working part was installed. If asked as a rigger I probably wouldn't do this. Too many chances for questions. I usually insist that my customers have the RSL installed if there is one. If a rig does have an RSL installed, it leaves my shop hooked up. I don't care if they disconnect it (I disagree and jump one myself most jumps), and since they can I don't think I'm imposing any burden on them. I break this policy for some of my best friends and customers who I know won't use it. Some riggers believe they shouldn't remove a safety device no matter what. Some riggers don't care and do what ever the customer wants. If we ask the FAA half of the people won't like the answer. I do have a skydiver FAA inspector friend. If I get a chance I'll email him and ask him off the record. The PIA rigging committee members and others have this debate at every symposium. Some riggers are adament that it MUST be installed if so equipped. Others are adament they will do what the CUSTOMER wants. I'm kind of in the middle. Terry Urban S&TA ME Conf. Senior Rigger Chairman of the PIA Rigging Committee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabr190 0 #9 February 12, 2004 Thanks Terry, I just want to make sure I am "legal" on this issue, I think I will just remove it completely for now, just to be on the safe side. I would be curious what your FAA friend has to say about it, please keep me posted. Thanks again. Bill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,107 #10 February 12, 2004 I recommend not leaving an RSL connected if it is non-functional. They can snag things during a cutaway; you are adding risk with no benefit by leaving it attached. Is that really worth avoiding questions? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites