friflaj 0 #1 February 5, 2004 Hey people, Can someone shed some light on why the Spectre and the Sabre2 have lower recommended weight per size than the Stiletto, for example? I've flown the Stiletto 135 for a while now, and I'm looking at the Spectre 120 for some camera and birdman jumps. How does increasing wingload affect the Spectre, and how would that be different from an increased wingload on the Stiletto? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #2 February 5, 2004 how would it be loaded ??? how would PD recommend it ?? I guess because the Spectre is a "less" performing canopy compared to the stiletto, and that it is "better" to have "lighter" wingloadings on a spectre---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friflaj 0 #3 February 5, 2004 > how would it be loaded 1.45 > how would PD recommend it ?? 1.3 for expert, 1.6 max. > I guess because the Spectre is a "less" performing > canopy compared to the stiletto, and that it is > "better" to have "lighter" wingloadings on a spectre That's what I figured, but then why the low WL for expert and max? I can understand for students, but they also make a 97... I can't imagine a student on a size like that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMO 0 #4 February 5, 2004 Quote How does increasing wingload affect the Spectre 7-cells really start to loose their flare when you start loading them. 9-cells are far more forgiving at higher wing loadings. When I started packing on the pounds I thought my 7-cell would start to increase in performance… you know downsizing naturally rather then by buying a new canopy. WRONG! The flare window really shortened and I decreased my swoop distances. I have been test jumping several 9-cell canopies at higher wing loadings then I’m currently jumping at and they have all landed great. Over simplifying, 9-cells have greater glide and flare then 7-cells. 7-cells are better able to sink in brakes and are ideal for accuracy and demos. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #5 February 5, 2004 I've jumped one (a Spectre 150) loaded at about 1.9 and I've jumped one loaded at 1.35. They both opened and flew well, but loading it at 1.9 definately had the canopy performing poorly.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
floormonkey 0 #6 February 5, 2004 Quote Over simplifying, 9-cells have greater glide and flare then 7-cells. 7-cells are better able to sink in brakes and are ideal for accuracy and demos From http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/Spectre-Flight-Char.pdf Straight Flight at full Glide: The Spectre flies at about the same airspeed as other canopies such as the original Sabre, the Sabre2, and the Stiletto. Many jumpers do not expect a seven-cell canopy to glide as far as a comparable nine-cell, but at full glide the Spectre actually has a slightly flatter glide angle than some nine-cell canopies, including both the original Sabre and the Sabre2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMO 0 #7 February 5, 2004 Quote Many jumpers do not expect a seven-cell canopy to glide as far as a comparable nine-cell, but at full glide the Spectre actually has a slightly flatter glide angle than some nine-cell canopies, including both the original Sabre and the Sabre2. Catch here is we are talking about a jumper at a higer wing loading. The Spectre is a great canopy with a large control range, start over loading it and she'll sink. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friflaj 0 #8 February 5, 2004 > Catch here is we are talking about a jumper at a higer > wing loading. The Spectre is a great canopy with a large > control range, start over loading it and she'll sink. So the question then becomes, is 1.45 overloading it? Would the Sabre2 hold up better? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #9 February 5, 2004 Quote So the question then becomes, is 1.45 overloading it? Would the Sabre2 hold up better? SM1 (SkyMonkeyONE) flies a pretty heavily loaded Sabre2 for his WS jumps, ask him.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMO 0 #10 February 5, 2004 Quote is 1.45 overloading it? Not knowing your preferences, I would say you need to jump the canopy to see if you like it or not. However, from my experience 1.4 is about the limit for a ZP 7-cell. The canopy will still fly and land you safely but if I you’re jumping at 1.4 or higher I'd personally go with the 9-cell. If you could find a Spectre at a 1.2 or less I’d say it would be the perfect canopy for camera and birdman jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #11 February 5, 2004 so at 1.4 it will be quite highly loaded for what the canopy allows, not overloaded, but not too far from the limit. might not be an important loading for certain canopies, far too much for some other. it all depends of the parachute. like for a car, maybe 3500 rpm will be at low gas, and for some other it will explode the engine and the 97 spectre might not be designed for students and more for experimented skydivers, but imagine someone with 100 jumps and wheighing 45kg (95 pounds...)---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friflaj 0 #12 February 5, 2004 > Not knowing your preferences, I would say you need to jump the canopy to see if you like it or not. It's coming in for demo jumps soon. > However, from my experience 1.4 is about the limit for a ZP 7-cell. It's definately going to be > 1.4. > If you could find a Spectre at a 1.2 or less I’d say it would be the perfect canopy for camera and birdman > jumps. That would mean a 150 for me... I tried the 135, and while it's probably a good canopy, the canopy I'm going to pick will become my main canopy... let's just say I didn't run out to sign the purchase order after the demo jumps. I want to do some birdman, but it's not likely to become a major part of my skydiving, and frankly, I'd sooner rent/lend a suitable canopy for those few jumps than have a Spectre 150 for all of my jumps. Thanks for the pointers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMO 0 #13 February 5, 2004 Quote frankly, I'd sooner rent/lend a suitable canopy for those few jumps than have a Spectre 150 for all of my jumps. I know what you're sayin'... In a perfect world we could all afford to have 3 or 4 different rigs with all types of canopies for every type of jumping we may want to do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 5 #14 February 6, 2004 I've got lots of jumps on a spectre at 1.3 and it is mighty fine. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vt1977 0 #15 February 6, 2004 I load my Spectre 135 at just over 1.2. I find that the landings are a lot nicer if I am wearing 12lbs of lead which take my wingloading up to around 1.3 ish. A lightly loaded Spectre is a lovely, forgiving docile canopy but if you load them a bit (I personally wouldn’t go higher than 1.4 or so) then they’re good fun and (for me) nicer to land. Try one and see what you think! Vicki Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apley 0 #16 February 7, 2004 i am in total agreement that overloading the spectre will make some HARD landings. i have flown both a 150 loaded @ 1.27, and after breaking my leg @ high altitude, a 170 loaded @ 1.15. it's like 2 different canopies. under the new loading, my sink has decreased dramatically, and my flare is much more forgiving of timing errors. bottom line to me is... buy a canopy that will serve you well at ANY drop zone if you plan to travel! of course, i intend to NEVER swoop, and look at the canopy only as a means of reaching the ground safely for another freefly jump! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #17 February 8, 2004 Please check with PD before making statements such as this. Quote control range, start over loading it and she'll sink. I believe once you do you will find out that the canopy does not sink. The higher wing loading will cause the canopy to fly faster. The decent angle will remain close to the same however you fly down it faster. This may give you the perception of a sink rate increase however they are two different things. Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
