Faber 0 #26 March 9, 2005 QuoteDid you have any BASE jumping experience before you jumped off your first object? guess you mean experience flying a canopy yes i did have 500+ skydives If not.. No i hadnt tryed a BASE jump before i did it the first time,however i had tryed to fly a 7 cell canopy... I am aware thar PG pilots know alot more about flying wings than i.But they aint going to huck them off whith the wing theyre used to fly. I see a difference in a wing that cant climb and a wing designed to climb. You did try out the difference just between a 7 and 9 cell canopy didnt you? I do belive that PG pilots have high skills as you speak about flying a wing however as they suddenly will find themself under a wing that only can desend,dont have the same ways to be flown then i think its a bad idea.. You dont let hanggliders fly fight plans as the wings looks similar you let them do it if they have the experience in a fight plane so they know how to control the wing as it get critical... As Tom already also said,why would you think a PG pilot would stop BASE jumping after this event? dont you think they want more? if so they need to know how to fly BASEcanopyes so they dont get hurt or die... Jason i placed the note about the list as i think your going in 2 different ways.I do admire your work but think that if you want BASE to be legal you also need to show people that you care about people that huck them self off theese objects,one way is to educate people so they dont hurt them self,or make sure they have the canopy skills required not only at thouse legal places..(getting hurt on a illegal place still gives more attention than on a legal place..) Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base428 1 #27 March 9, 2005 I don't have a problem with PG pilots being tossed off the Potato Bridge because these guys probably have more canopy experience than most jumpers. How do I know this? I've flown some wings in my time and I'm friends with several PG pilots. However, if Miles were catering to whuffos with zero time under a parachute, then I would have issues with it. I'm trying to open access at cliffs in National Parks. So, comparing this to an already legal, state-owned bridge is not really a good comparison.(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #28 March 9, 2005 QuoteI don't have a problem with PG pilots being tossed off the Potato Bridge neither do i,however i dont want to hear about theese people getting hurt in their further jurney of BASE.. Perhaps some skydives under students canopyes will be enough to theese guys i dont know,but i think its wrong not having ANY experience in a wing your having a realative short ride under off the bridge. Do you know how to rescue thouse to fail? youll need to pick on the good once aswell,that way you´ll get a equal education and therefore bigger posibility to get away unharmed... QuoteSo, comparing this to an already legal, state-owned bridge is not really a good comparison. If a national park sees that you huck inexperienced people off an already site do you then think they want to open up their site to get the posibility of the same at their place? i guess not and i do understand them.. Its the same way i wont guide any to a jump i belive is beyond their skills,i dont my object burned becourse of that. Perhaps you also should think forward that more jumpers= more injuryes. More new jumpers = more injuryes More inexperienced jumpers= more injuryes more injuryes = bad reputation meaning that open sites can be locked,and new onces might never will open... Im not picking on 1 pg pilot that is a natural,im looking all over,not all are natural to this.As Miles says no experience is nesseary he welcome evryone which could turn into a dangerzone and hurt BASE.. Should we expect theese courses at B day this year aswell as its already legal aswell so it cant be harmed?? I think you can compare both TF and some cliffs... its all about beeing ahead of the problems,thats the only way to prevent them.. Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #29 March 9, 2005 Jason, It's a separate issue, but: Do you think BASE training ought to be provided as a "this is what you'll need to know later on," or a "this is what you need for this one jump/weekend/object"? I'm not trying to be clever, or start a fight, here. I'm really curious what you think. We had this discussion a (longish) while back on BLiNC, regarding some folks who had never learned to pack slider down (because they were only planning on jumping in Norway).-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base428 1 #30 March 9, 2005 I threw my 2 cents into this thread, but I didn't want to get this involved.....therefore, I'll try to be brief. In most cases, BASE training should be comprehensive and tailored to "this is what you'll need to know later on". However, there are exceptions. Even Bridge Day is a good exception because most new jumpers there never take a first jump course. All they may get is a 1 hour "how not to die" course. They get no formal training, especially in the areas of site evaluation, ethics, etc. So is Bridge Day bad? Bottom line is that it depends on the situation, but generally a full blown course is best. I don't think paragliders are the type to rush off to jump their local 130' bridge with an ebay rig. While on the subject of FJC's, I'm working on implementing a full blown FJC this year at Bridge Day. Interested instructors please email me for details. The course would entail several days of training before BD and then guidance during your student's first jump. Cya.(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hucklberry 0 #31 March 10, 2005 Yo Tree, Sorry I'm not gonna be able to make it out for your dates. I appreciate the offer though. I'll tell you what, I will send out a care pakage for you. In care of " World famous" Miles D. Hopefully you will recieve it in time. Did you need extra diapers or tampons? Get back to me asap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tfelber 0 #32 March 10, 2005 Jason, I would reply to you via a PM, but you have PM's blocked! I have no reason to piss you off because I don't even know you and I think we both want the same thing, however I have offered my assistance in regards to legalizing BASE in the NPS and I haven't even received a response! Do you want to have this happen or do you need to be the ONE? As for Miles, I only know you from videos and online conversations. More power to you, but what is your and Jason's real aspirations? I'm all for everyone getting rich (Tom, if your not already rich you deserve to be), but this is a community where honesty is cherished and deceit is scorned. So if your goal is to be financially sucessful doing FJC's just say so. This is a very, very small community and you surely know this. I hope to jump with all of you, but all of the cover up and misleading coments serve no one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #33 March 10, 2005 I really don't think Jason has some underylying financial obective here. He pretty much just wants to be able to make jumps in NPS lands in the US. He's given a huge amount of his personal time and money to that end. Miles aspirations? As far as I can tell that's pretty much "have fun!" I disagree with some of the things he does, but I don't think he's got some giant, hidden agenda. He's just out there doing things that look like fun for him, and hopin to support his family at it somehow. Go easy. Both of those guys give tons back to all of us without being asked (Jason negotiates with NPS bureaucrats way more than he wants, and Miles has thrown in 30 or 40 hours of his own time to trail improvement down here).-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tfelber 0 #34 March 10, 2005 QuoteHe pretty much just wants to be able to make jumps in NPS lands in the US... Miles aspirations? As far as I can tell that's pretty much "have fun!" That is what I want to believe and I will donate ALL of my time to pursue those ends. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base428 1 #35 March 10, 2005 QuoteI would reply to you via a PM, but you have PM's blocked! My email address is listed in my profile. I just prefer to answer and send email from one program. QuoteI have offered my assistance in regards to legalizing BASE in the NPS and I haven't even received a response! Did you email ME? I respond to every email that requires a response. We are still getting our organization in order, so that may be the reason we've not contacted volunteers yet. Once our website is fully functional, your help WILL be needed. Please be patient, as we're still setting things up on our end. Keep in mind there are many people involved in the ABP and we're trying to see where everyone fits in right now. I'm just a board member, and there are a few jumpers who are higher up than I. I'm just one of the few who, for some odd reason, continues to post to this forum. Go figure. QuoteI hope to jump with all of you, but all of the cover up and misleading coments serve no one. Huh? I think Tom summed this up pretty well above, so I'll let this rest. Anyway, thanks for offering to help. Please resend your original email if you can.(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #36 March 10, 2005 QuoteAll they may get is a 1 hour "how not to die" course. They get no formal training, especially in the areas of site evaluation, ethics, etc. So is Bridge Day bad? about the new people jumping yes B-day is bad.. we already covered it once and its about the same here,no reasson to ague about that we dont agree in this thats life.. which dosnt mean that i wont join B-day or jump whith any of you guys,i just that the way your starting new "waves"/getting new jumpers in, in our sport is the bad way to go... Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tfelber 0 #37 March 11, 2005 Jason, I probably owe you a public apology. After re-reading my previous post it seemed to me to be very inflammatory. I'm not sure why I expressed my views in that manner. So I'm sorry to you and Miles for presenting my thoughts as I did. I think what I was really trying to say is if you make an income from jumping, jumping in NP, or organizing events like BD, we (other jumpers) shouldn't discredit you for that effort. After all in reality anything that becomes available from your effort constitutes MORE legal access. I think part of my anger was based on the overall lack of clarity of the direction you and others are trying to swing things; i.e. the Fatality List thread and no response to my offer of assistance (although you have since responded) made me question your motives. BTW, my wife thinks I distrust everything. Last night I told here I thought "The Apprentice" was probably fixed... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ojlawrence 0 #38 March 23, 2005 Well after all the discussion of paraglider pilots learning to base jump it seemed like we should do some further testing to make sure it was legit. checkout http://www.ojinternational.com/video.htm click "Dog Food BASE" Test subject 1 is a bag of "Atta Boy" dog food. Test subject 2 is paraglider pilot. Both are in the same First Jump Course(FJC). Both subjects stuck the shit out of it. Some might argue that the PG pilot did better than the sack of dog food because he had a nice soft landing in the LZ, whereas the dogfood landed in the water. You decide. My personal opinion is that if a bag of dog food can make a successful jump off the bridge I'm confident a PG pilot will do just fine. Happy Hucking, Othar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #39 March 23, 2005 QuoteMy personal opinion is that if a bag of dog food can make a successful jump off the bridge I'm confident a PG pilot will do just fine. Nah. The correct quote is: "Anyone who can step off a chair and throw a handkerchief out of their pocket can make a BASE jump. -- Glenn Singlemann"-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #40 March 23, 2005 ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base311 0 #41 March 23, 2005 Quote My personal opinion is that if a bag of dog food can make a successful jump off the bridge I'm confident a PG pilot will do just fine. Happy Hucking, Othar Gotta admit you guys are growing on me. But I have to say.... You're in IDAHO. You mean to tell me you guys couldn't find a 100 lb sack of potatoes? WTF? Loved the Atta Boy Dog food, though... heh heh. So, there it is: any sack of "Atta Boy" dogfood can make a basejump. Gardner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #42 March 23, 2005 QuoteMy personal opinion is that if a bag of dog food can make a successful jump off the bridge the question would rather be can they do more than that? doing it once could be luck... Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lifewithoutanet 0 #43 March 23, 2005 QuoteMy personal opinion is that if a bag of dog food can make a successful jump off the bridge I'm confident a PG pilot will do just fine. That was hilarious, but I gotta admit I was pretty impressed that the dog food kept its heading. Would've expected some sort of harness input to put him into a turn or a spin, but then, maybe he knows he's just a bag of dog food and doesn't have the experience necessary to get all tricky under canopy like PG pilots. Atta boy... -C. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pBASEtobe 0 #44 March 23, 2005 I'm surprised it opened that fast and fully/properly. I would've thought that at such a low wing loading it would've had problems inflating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lifewithoutanet 0 #45 March 23, 2005 Yeah, I get what you're saying. But I gotta step back for a second for a quick "WTF?" Who here ever suspected we'd ever be discussing---let alone have an actual reason to discuss---the wingloading of a fucking bag of dog food? -C. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pBASEtobe 0 #46 March 23, 2005 QuoteWho here ever suspected we'd ever be discussing the wingloading of a fucking bag of dog food? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouYoung 0 #47 March 23, 2005 I think what he did was pretty irresponsible. I don't think I saw a pilot chute on the end of that bridle, seriously putting the bag of dog food in a lot of risk in the event that he may have accidentally released prematurely. That bag of dog food would have been in a world of hurt if the container didn't open from the assist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lifewithoutanet 0 #48 March 23, 2005 QuoteI don't think I saw a pilot chute on the end of that bridle Yeah, I saw that, too. Gear checks aside, this just goes to show that it takes some serious kibbles to BASE jump. -C. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #49 March 23, 2005 Quote Yeah, I saw that, too. Gear checks aside, this just goes to show that it takes some serious kibbles to BASE jump. -C. kibbles... yea there would have been kibbles and BITs if the chute didnt openLeroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pope 0 #50 March 23, 2005 QuoteThat bag of dog food would have been in a world of hurt if the container didn't open from the assist. But Don's dogs may have been loving it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
