Treejumps 0 #1 March 6, 2005 Hey everyone jumping vented PCs. I just had on blow out at the union between the vent mesh aqnd the PC canopy (F-111). It appears that the hole for the vent is cut out with a hot knife, and the edge is not turned over to sew. This leaves a cut edge for the stiches to "work" there way towards. On mine the stiching was not that great with anywhere from 3/16" of meterial between the stiching and the edge to as little as a 1/16". Keep a close eye on any PC construced in this fashion as it is clearly a weak point. This was a 42" Vented CR, and the failure took place on a 3 second delay. The PC is now useless. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DexterBase 1 #2 March 6, 2005 Do you know the approximate date of manufacture? How many jumps are on that PC? Why did you order that color? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #3 March 6, 2005 Wouldn't PC fabric type also be an issue (durability, strain around vent) - why did you choose F111 over ZP for a vented PC? Edited to add : glad there was still enough drag to get your shit out and you are OK! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DexterBase 1 #4 March 6, 2005 One more question: have you used that PC for PCA's and if so, what was the method used? That looks like damage that could be caused by poor PCA technique and go unnoticed and then slowly progress over time. That damage looks pretty severe for just freefall deployments. I could be wrong, but it just looks like that fabric was torn by being yanked on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Faber 0 #5 March 6, 2005 i do agree whith you,specialy about the collur thing and yes why did you choose F-111 over ZP?(dont tell me you like the F-111 over your nipples than the ZP) Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #6 March 6, 2005 I've seen similar, but less severe, damage, on an Asylum PC, resulting from a freefall delay (definitely not from PCA). I'm pretty sure that this is possible on any brand PC, but more likely on a vented PC. The possibility of such damage is only one reason why we ought to carefully inspect all of our gear before every jump.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DexterBase 1 #7 March 6, 2005 If you pull out a vented PC you can definitely see room for improvement on this seam. I think the ticket would be to leave more excess on the vent side of the stitch. Has anyone called Marty and told him about this problem? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #8 March 6, 2005 QuoteHas anyone called Marty and told him about this problem? Yes. I believe he was notified (and possibly shipped the PC) about the problem I saw.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DexterBase 1 #9 March 6, 2005 How long ago was that? I have some fairly new PC's that are the same. The newest ones I have are different, having more excess material inside the vent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #10 March 6, 2005 QuoteHow long ago was that? Sometime this past fall. Maybe October or November? I can't remember precisely. If you want I can dig through my calendar and see if I can place it. Since it wasn't my gear, it's not going to be in my log book or anything.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DexterBase 1 #11 March 6, 2005 No, a ballpark estimate is good enough. I wonder how old that PC was. Maybe you can give Marty a call and talk about it with him (you can probably articulate the problem better than I could) and see if he's addressed it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites whatever 0 #12 March 6, 2005 QuoteQuoteHow long ago was that? Sometime this past fall. Maybe October or November? I can't remember precisely. If you want I can dig through my calendar and see if I can place it. Since it wasn't my gear, it's not going to be in my log book or anything. Hey Tom (A) are you talking about the one Tom (D) had, he was the guy there with Tommy and I don't mean Tom (M), while I was in TF - which was late July 04 ? damn, there was a lot of Tom's there that week! cya sam soon to be gone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Treejumps 0 #13 March 7, 2005 Not sure on the age and number of jumps, but the PC is/was otherwise in great shape. It was a used on that cames with my wife's used Fox. I had already done a cursory inspection and everything looked great. As pointed out by Tom, the design is the weak link. It would need to have a lot more fabric left on the vent side, or ideally, have the edge folded over. Definitely not a PCA induced issus. You can tell that it is from regular wear as the fabric that has not failed has stretch marks around the stiches. Check your gear. Cya. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #14 March 7, 2005 Quote..are you talking about the one Tom (D) had, he was the guy there with Tommy and I don't mean Tom (M), while I was in TF - which was late July 04 ? No. But you have reminded me of that one, as well. DexterBASE, isn't Tom D from your area?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DexterBase 1 #15 March 7, 2005 Yeah, Tom D is from around here. Shall I PM you his contact info? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skreamer 1 #16 March 7, 2005 QuoteWouldn't PC fabric type also be an issue (durability, strain around vent) - why did you choose F111 over ZP for a vented PC? Until someone answers, allow me to follow on. Morpheus recently told me they would not vent F111 PCs and didn't know of any gear manufacturer that did. As I understand it ZP PCs are more prone to orbiting since F111 is more porous, hence the desire for vents on ZP PCs. I understand this PC came with a second hand rig, but is there anybody out there advocating using vented F111 PCs and why? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Naptown 0 #17 March 7, 2005 Last night I pulled out one of my PC's and did a quick check. It is not blown out, but the outer row of the stitching in the same spot has already come out. I'm still going to use it but watch it very closely. The thing that stinks is it hardly has any jumps on it Not sure about my other PC's, i'm going to check them now. Just wanted to share. scott P.S. It is made by one of the major manufactures. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #18 March 7, 2005 I'm assuming that Tree made a typo, because I'm not aware of CR ever producing a vented F-111 PC. This may have been a custom PC, but I'm guessing typo. I agree with your understanding (that venting is unneccesary on an F-111 PC, because F-111 is essentially self-venting).-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Treejumps 0 #19 March 7, 2005 Typo. Just referring to the canopy material. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 0
DexterBase 1 #4 March 6, 2005 One more question: have you used that PC for PCA's and if so, what was the method used? That looks like damage that could be caused by poor PCA technique and go unnoticed and then slowly progress over time. That damage looks pretty severe for just freefall deployments. I could be wrong, but it just looks like that fabric was torn by being yanked on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #5 March 6, 2005 i do agree whith you,specialy about the collur thing and yes why did you choose F-111 over ZP?(dont tell me you like the F-111 over your nipples than the ZP) Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #6 March 6, 2005 I've seen similar, but less severe, damage, on an Asylum PC, resulting from a freefall delay (definitely not from PCA). I'm pretty sure that this is possible on any brand PC, but more likely on a vented PC. The possibility of such damage is only one reason why we ought to carefully inspect all of our gear before every jump.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DexterBase 1 #7 March 6, 2005 If you pull out a vented PC you can definitely see room for improvement on this seam. I think the ticket would be to leave more excess on the vent side of the stitch. Has anyone called Marty and told him about this problem? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #8 March 6, 2005 QuoteHas anyone called Marty and told him about this problem? Yes. I believe he was notified (and possibly shipped the PC) about the problem I saw.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DexterBase 1 #9 March 6, 2005 How long ago was that? I have some fairly new PC's that are the same. The newest ones I have are different, having more excess material inside the vent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #10 March 6, 2005 QuoteHow long ago was that? Sometime this past fall. Maybe October or November? I can't remember precisely. If you want I can dig through my calendar and see if I can place it. Since it wasn't my gear, it's not going to be in my log book or anything.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DexterBase 1 #11 March 6, 2005 No, a ballpark estimate is good enough. I wonder how old that PC was. Maybe you can give Marty a call and talk about it with him (you can probably articulate the problem better than I could) and see if he's addressed it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whatever 0 #12 March 6, 2005 QuoteQuoteHow long ago was that? Sometime this past fall. Maybe October or November? I can't remember precisely. If you want I can dig through my calendar and see if I can place it. Since it wasn't my gear, it's not going to be in my log book or anything. Hey Tom (A) are you talking about the one Tom (D) had, he was the guy there with Tommy and I don't mean Tom (M), while I was in TF - which was late July 04 ? damn, there was a lot of Tom's there that week! cya sam soon to be gone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Treejumps 0 #13 March 7, 2005 Not sure on the age and number of jumps, but the PC is/was otherwise in great shape. It was a used on that cames with my wife's used Fox. I had already done a cursory inspection and everything looked great. As pointed out by Tom, the design is the weak link. It would need to have a lot more fabric left on the vent side, or ideally, have the edge folded over. Definitely not a PCA induced issus. You can tell that it is from regular wear as the fabric that has not failed has stretch marks around the stiches. Check your gear. Cya. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #14 March 7, 2005 Quote..are you talking about the one Tom (D) had, he was the guy there with Tommy and I don't mean Tom (M), while I was in TF - which was late July 04 ? No. But you have reminded me of that one, as well. DexterBASE, isn't Tom D from your area?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DexterBase 1 #15 March 7, 2005 Yeah, Tom D is from around here. Shall I PM you his contact info? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #16 March 7, 2005 QuoteWouldn't PC fabric type also be an issue (durability, strain around vent) - why did you choose F111 over ZP for a vented PC? Until someone answers, allow me to follow on. Morpheus recently told me they would not vent F111 PCs and didn't know of any gear manufacturer that did. As I understand it ZP PCs are more prone to orbiting since F111 is more porous, hence the desire for vents on ZP PCs. I understand this PC came with a second hand rig, but is there anybody out there advocating using vented F111 PCs and why? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Naptown 0 #17 March 7, 2005 Last night I pulled out one of my PC's and did a quick check. It is not blown out, but the outer row of the stitching in the same spot has already come out. I'm still going to use it but watch it very closely. The thing that stinks is it hardly has any jumps on it Not sure about my other PC's, i'm going to check them now. Just wanted to share. scott P.S. It is made by one of the major manufactures. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #18 March 7, 2005 I'm assuming that Tree made a typo, because I'm not aware of CR ever producing a vented F-111 PC. This may have been a custom PC, but I'm guessing typo. I agree with your understanding (that venting is unneccesary on an F-111 PC, because F-111 is essentially self-venting).-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Treejumps 0 #19 March 7, 2005 Typo. Just referring to the canopy material. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
