BASE Discussions on Climbing Forums

[base428 1]

I kept this to myself for a few days and never intended it to get over here, but there is too much valuable beta on the following thread:

SuperTopo BASE Thread

I felt compelled to post a link here because you all NEED to read the 69+ posts about how climbers feel about BASE jumping.

FYI: I started that particular thread because I was not thrilled with previous anti-BASE posts there in the last few months. Also, as you can probably tell, I'm on a warpath to legalize BASE in National Parks. Enjoy.

(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

[chuckbrown 0]

This should be a sticky.

[crimpfiend 0]

Thanks for representin' Jason. I read the posts and think some were slightly enlightened by your comments. Climbing's been as big a part of my life as BASE has, so I appreciate the parallels and differences in each... and indeed I think many climbers & jumpers are cut from the same cloth.

[base428 1]

Another interesting climber/jumper thread from a few years ago

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[tfelber 0]

Jason, we have not yet met, but we will. I believe it is a major injustice for the NPS to outlaw BASE jumping. I'm am very interested in changing that law and will gladly participate in yours and others efforts.

However, after reading all these threads for the past few hours I do see a different side of the battle. For instance,

1. It would need to be a permitted activity on a specified schedule to reduce the chance of injurying bystanders and to keep the jumping and acces to the objects from getting out-of-control; much like BD.

2. The climbers have a point about working in conjunction with the NPS to better the environment. I think it would be dificult to organize a BASE cleanup day where jumpers would come to the park to better the environment and not to jump. I could be worng though and I think this would be a great goodwill offering. a day-for-a-day so to speak.

3. The laws are made primarily by the people for the people and if we can get enough people to solicit the government for a change in the law it will happen, but again the BASE crowd is extremely small and our influence is negligable. A BD petition and flyer would gain access to a larger group.

4. I don't feel the list that Nick manages is as detrimental as it is helpful in understanding and avoiding others mistakes; very much like the Incident Forum here. And it does assist in keeping exaggerated statements regarding BASE fatalities in check. Could it be better/different? Maybe. But Nick has taken it upon himself to handle it. Why judge his implementation?

5. BASE jumping is very hard for the general public to understand as is Freestyle MX, but there are hundreds of thousands of people who ride motorcycles and therfore can imagine what it would be like. The skydiving community is a small fraction of the size of the motorcycling community and the number of skydivers who would consider BASE jumping is an even smaller fraction of that. I was exposed to it for the first time at WFFC last year and immediately responded with NO WAY! But now after much analysis, research, and preparation I'm headed to TF in a couple of weeks, but most people wouldn't put that much effort into anything. So people will probably never understand it. The only thing we can hope for is acceptance.

I think that is beginning to happen and the momentum is gradually building. Has anyone tried pitching BASE jumping to the X-Games. The MC, skate and snowboarding competitions have definitely added a lot of credibility and acceptance to these activities. It wasn't that long ago when snowboards were outlawed in many ski areas. It might still be outlawed in Aspen.

6. I've been told by BASE jumpers that "They're working on that..." when I ask about approaching the NPS or government regarding reducing the restrictions on BASE. But that keeps the battle limited to the small front that "They" can muster. I think we need to widen the effort and enroll everyone in doing what they can do to overcome this issue.

7. The thrill of finding an object, analyzing what it takes to jump it, and then jumping it is what draws me to BASE. Having legal places to jump that I can drive up, unpack, and jump doesn't satisfy that craving for me, but the experience of jumping legal objects definetly has its' place. I don't think legal access to certain sites will affect my desire to explore the other edge. But these new legal sites will draw a lot of attention and like BD may become a carnival of sorts, especially the more limited the participation or schedule is. And now I've talke myself right back to point #1.


So it's going to be a diffcult job at best, but I am willing to assist where ever possible. I think we will all need to make some sacrifices up front to even be heard. I think Link from the rock climbing board might be a very good ally in this struggle.

BTW, did this post just get me added to the NPS list?

[ncjumpjunkie 0]

Jason,
After reading some of your post on the climbing page, it looks as if you are proposing tight restrictions on the BASE jumping community in your talks with NPS. Is this correct?
Who will head the BASE organization, or the licensing organization that you spoke of?
Why do we have to be in an organization? Why can't we be free to access the parks like everyone else?

What exactly are you proposing to the NPS?

SONIC BEEF #1 BASE 708, NC BASE 3
SLI,IADI,AFFI.TIE.FAA Rigger, Single & Multi Commercial Pilot,CFI, CFII, MEI

[DexterBase 1]

That's a good question because many of the jumpers who are jumping on NPS land aren't going to play by strict rules. The rules are already very strict, yet people still jump.

Do you think people already jumping illegally on NPS land will play by the rules if it becomes legal with certain restrictions?

If the NPS decides to open it with tight restrictions and a bunch of jumpers are running around doing bandit jumps on NPS land it will probably give the NPS even more room to call us a bunch of outlaws.

Jason, do you have any ideas on how to deal with this? BASE jumpers are going to be a difficult group to get to play by a set of rules.

[TomAiello 26]

  Quote

Do you think people already jumping illegally on NPS land will play by the rules if it becomes legal with certain restrictions?

If the NPS decides to open it with tight restrictions and a bunch of jumpers are running around doing bandit jumps on NPS land it will probably give the NPS even more room to call us a bunch of outlaws.

I pretty much think that's going to be the central issue. Personally, I've got no clear solution, but a couple ideas.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[base428 1]

Sorry for not replying until now. Within our group, there seems to be three different opinions:

(1) Unrestricted access to jump sites.
(2) Moderately restricted access with some rules.
(3) A licensing system with a moderate amount of rules.

There is much disagreement about which approach we'll take. Basically, we've agreed to shoot for item #1 above, at least until we're requested to look at #2 or #3. Keep in mind that I've not given much description to the three items above. Anyway, if we were permitted to jump again, I believe that item #1 would result in chaos, confusion, and eventually another ban. Jumpers are rule breakers by nature. Plus, many of our legal jump sites around the world have "some" rules in place and these rules are not that hard to follow. For example, having an XX jump minimum for certain jump sites may be a good idea. Also, having XX number of skydives to jump in National Parks might also be a good rule to have. I wouldn't worry too much, because even item #3 above would allow pretty much everyone on this forum to be included. We're just looking out for the guy with 5 skydives who wants to jump his Wonderhog/Sabre off of Half Dome.

So that's all the info we have so far. Nothing has been presented to the NPS. We'll ask for everyone's input shortly. Stay tuned. More info will be posted very soon.

  Quote

it looks as if you are proposing tight restrictions on the BASE jumping community in your talks with NPS. Is this correct?
Who will head the BASE organization, or the licensing organization that you spoke of?
Why do we have to be in an organization? Why can't we be free to access the parks like everyone else?

What exactly are you proposing to the NPS?

(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only