Dougjumper 0 #1 January 29, 2004 If different Motorcycle Helmets are either Dot or Snell approved. Why arent Skydiving Helmets approved? The Speeds in Skydiving seem High enough not to mention the Dangers envolved. The glass is half full or half empty doesn't matter. Let go and have the Lord guide your path. He will take care of it all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DShiznit 0 #2 January 29, 2004 What is the need to approve them? They are there to keep you from bumping your head, not save your life. You aren't going to slide across the road at 80mph, but rather hit it at 150+. A helmet won't save you there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3 January 29, 2004 How much are you willing to pay for a Skydiving helmet and how big and heavy are you willing to let it be? The biggest concern is the amount of money that manufactures would have to spend to get the helmets approved, so instead of $200 for that cool helmet, you'd probably end up spending $500+. Motorcycle helmets don't cost that much, simply due to economics, think, how many helmets are sold for motorcycles each year. Now how about skydiving. Much less of a base to spread that cost over.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #4 January 29, 2004 Have you ever tried to skydive with a Snell approved helmet? Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #5 January 29, 2004 Money. Testing costs money, which is generally something that skydiving related manufacturers don't have a lot of. Gotta remember, a skydiving helmet manufacturer isn't going to sell as many helmets at a motorcycle helmet manufacturer will. Maybe when we have as many skydivers as there are motorcyclists out there... (may that day never come) So the cost of testing per helmet sold would be higher on a skydiving helmet than on a motorcycle helmet. If it were to be done then the costs of testing would of course be passed on to the purchaser; would you be willing to pay more (and how much more) for a helmet because it has a sticker that says it passed a test? Liability would be another reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dougjumper 0 #6 January 29, 2004 No but I thought about just trying it out.. Got a fairly new HJC Motorcross Helmet that I was thinking about throwing on and trying ..He..He Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dougjumper 0 #7 January 29, 2004 Heres the thing.. What is it worth to protect your Cranium in a high speed situation as much as possible? For some maybe not to much a consideration. For others protection and Safety is big. I take the Cost into consideration. But if it took a Snell approval to protect at 120+ mph I would rather go with it. Skydiving gear in general isnt inexpensive to begin with. If you play you gotta pay somewhere down the road. All in All consider the Risk but wouldnt you want the best protection from a Helmet? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #8 January 29, 2004 QuoteBut if it took a Snell approval to protect at 120+ mph I would rather go with it Dude, no helmet can do that!Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdthomas 0 #9 January 29, 2004 Approved or not, it's all blunt force and that shit will knock you out like mike tyson.www.greenboxphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #10 January 29, 2004 There are three standard agencies that handle helmet approvals for sporting goods. Each offers their own standard for many different sports and activities. For example, there are standards for bicycle helmets, snowsports helmets, motorsports helmets, and others. There is currently no standard for skydiving helmets. It would be easy for a skydiving helmet manufacturer to have their products tested and rated by one of the three agencies under an existing standard, but there are costs involved. Some of our current helmets do meet standards (Pro-Tec is an example), but most do not. My hunch is that skydivers are interested in cool looking helmets, and for the most part would not care about certifications. That's a shame. Tom Buchanan Instructor (AFF, SL, Iad, Tandem) Author JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and EasyTom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #11 January 29, 2004 QuoteMy hunch is that skydivers are interested in cool looking helmets, and for the most part would not care about certifications. That's a shame. I think every one in the new leage of alternative sports (I so dont want to use the word extreme lol) want a cool looking . Problem is that as I understand them, the existing standards test for fairly small impact force, with the understanding that most accidents in these activities will result in a fall from less then 1.5 metres (in most cases), and thats the potential energy line. Your speed has no relevance on the impact force on the ground (on a wall in front of you, yes, but not on the vertical aspect of it). With skydiving, there is no such relationship. Yes, the same standards could be used, but how does a 1.5 m fall translate to FF colision? a butched hook? 10 guys ramming you in the rear bulkhead? Yes, some testing would be good, but I personally dont care. As long as my helmet keeps away the bumps and scratches, its doing its job. Its also a convinience factor as a Fullface is less trouble then a frap or open face and goggles to me. I would not expect a helmet to same my life. If it does its bonus.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #12 January 29, 2004 The question here is what do we want our helmets to do? People who are wearing frap hats obviously look for a different level of protection than people wearing full-face helmets. Do you want a helmet that will absorb a small bump on the door frame as you climb out? One that will absorb a hard kick from an RW partner? One that will protect your head at 10 mph when you slide in on the tarmac? One that will protect your head at 60 mph when you blow your swoop? One that will protect you from a hard head to head knock when someone corks out of a freefly formation? One that will let you have an open casket if you go in terminal? These are all very different levels of protection, and it would be difficult to design a helmet for all these situations. The padding would need a soft layer for the light impacts, and a harder layer to spread out the bigger impacts. That means space, and that space creates snag hazards. And we have not even started talking about cameras, yet. Running a bolt through a helmet will create all kinds of problems that would void any certifications, and the bolt itself is a prime candidate to become an object that a surgeon would need to remove from your brain. I think that skydiving helmets would be very difficult to standardize and certify, just because of the different needs to which they are addressed. Brent ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #13 January 29, 2004 Quote My hunch is that skydivers are interested in cool looking helmets, and for the most part would not care about certifications. That's a shame. I don't think there's any reason to think that this is specific to skydivers. I know that when I was into compeditive skiing, having a punk'ed out brain-bag was dog-digity. Wanting stylish helmets does not mean people don't want safety ratings. If skiiers can have funk'ed out certified ski helmets, so can skydivers. I'm sure the first manufacturer to make a rated skydiving helmet will sell many. I imagine it'll also serve to reduce the manufacturers liability by having independent certification. No, a pro-tec is not a "skydiving helmet". It's a general purpose helmet that people use for skydiving. A skydiving helmet is purpose-built and has things like internal audible mounts and camera mounting accesories. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #14 January 29, 2004 QuoteIf skiiers can have funk'ed out certified ski helmets, so can skydivers. Again, will this certification have any relevance?Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #15 January 29, 2004 Quote Again, will this certification have any relevance? I don't understand the question. Relevance to who? Jumpers? I think so, after all ski helmet certifications are relevant to skiiers. Its tough to buy a uncertified ski helmet, shops just don't carry them - they don't sell. Relevance to courts? I think so, legal liability protection is why groups like UAL and SNELL were founded in the first place. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #16 January 29, 2004 Relevance in the real world. A snell or dot certifications would mean nothing in skydiving. The forces and impacts are not the same. What would a 10kg drop of 1.5m mean in skydiving??? (I dont know if these are the figures, but I have a feeling they are close). If you need a little sticker on your helmet to feel better, then yes its relevant.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #17 January 29, 2004 I lied... looks like its 5kg at 0.6m....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #18 January 29, 2004 Oh, we're back to that question? I thought that was answered already. If you're worried about chows while swooping, then the same certifications that motorcyclists have would be very meaningfull, I think. If you're worried about knocking your head on the side of the plane, or colisions while doing RW, then I think the skiing ones are meaningfull. Clearly no rated helmet will help someone who hits at the same time as their canopy, so I don't think the extremees are what we're discussing. We're discussing whether a rated helmet offers good protection for not-so-critical accidents that are very common in skydiving, and frequently do more damaget then they should. Yes, I think in all but the extreme cases the ratings would be meaningfull. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #19 January 29, 2004 I don't care if it's certified etc, but is it really that hard to put 3/4" of padding in a helmet like a Protec? -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #20 January 29, 2004 Quotethen the same certifications that motorcyclists have would be very meaningfull, I think. Nope. The speed of your head when hitting the pavement from a bike crash will be froma 0km/h speed accelerated at 9.8 m/s2 over 0.6m (or say 1m). Your horizontal speed does not impart any force to the impact. Skidding, yes. Hitting a wall, yes. But I doubt thats an issue with bikes either (ie your dead anyways unless v lucky) The vertical speed of you head messing up a hook will be 60-100 km/h (guesses here, depending on how badly you fucked up). Again, I dont expect a helmet to save someone who hooks in. Next thing you will want is a cervical support, and a back plate, and....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,573 #21 January 29, 2004 QuoteI don't care if it's certified etc, but is it really that hard to put 3/4" of padding in a helmet like a Protec? Helmet liner upgrades Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #22 January 29, 2004 QuoteRelevance in the real world. A snell or dot certifications would mean nothing in skydiving. The forces and impacts are not the same. What would a 10kg drop of 1.5m mean in skydiving??? (I dont know if these are the figures, but I have a feeling they are close). Obviously the forces involved in skydiving are variable from 120 mph blunt impact to a skidded impact along the ground. The same is true in other sports, but the maximum speeds are much lower. What we know in the snowsports industry is that in direct impacts of greater than about 12 mph a helmet won't make much difference, but most snowsports impacts involve lateral dissipation of energy, as is true in skydiving, and even at greater total speeds, a well constructed helmet will provide protection when the energy on impact is spread out over time or distance. It would be easy to develop a single impact test that will at least establish a standard of some kind. I've got to believe a standard, any standard, is better than none. Heck, even offering certification of our helmets to a bicycle or snowsports standard would tell me they will offer some level of impact protection, and that's not true of the multi-hundred dollar skydiving helmets we buy right now. Consumer reports actually did a review of snowsports helmets early this winter and found that most of the helmets they tested did fine, but one model of one brand broke in several places with a minor impact, and the chunks of helmet presented a serious threat to safety that might have been worse than no helmet at all. The failed helmet was actually just one color of one model from a major manufacturer. The other colors in that same model were fine, but the failed color was made from a different material. So, just because it looks cool doesn't mean much when the crash event gets ugly. Given the choices we have, I'd like to know the helmet I trust my life to, and the helmets I use for students, will meet at least a minimum industry standard. Tom Buchanan USPA Instructor (AFF, SL, IAD, Tandem) USPA S&TA AASI Instructor (Snowboarding) Author JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and EasyTom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dterrick 0 #23 January 30, 2004 I LIKE my Carrera ski helmet for skydiving ) - I think a ski helmet is a pretty good compromise for skydiving. I wish I'd had one all those years ago Very little will keep you intact from a botched swoop or a serious midair crash ('cept a Cypres, maybe). However, my Carrera can hold an audible as well as a Gath or a fullface ... and it looks bitchin' with either 'boarding goggles or my neon purple Smiths OTG's during winter jumps. Light + snag free + snug fitting = good, IMHO. Certifications are a bonus. -Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #24 January 30, 2004 QuoteQuoteBut if it took a Snell approval to protect at 120+ mph I would rather go with it Dude, no helmet can do that! Well maybe helmet could, but the head in the helmet wouldn't survive the acceleration/deceleration anyway. We are talking 20Gs and more..."George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #25 January 30, 2004 Honestly, the basic hard helmets that skydivers have right now, protect them from what they need to be protected from, IMHO. Hitting head on door on exit Getting kicked/hit in the head in freefall falling over on landing Beyond that, well, there's not too much more a helmet could do for a Skydiver. Hook in, well, you're still gonna get a head injury if your head hits. Burn in? Does it really matter what your head does?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
