PD-9 Cell 210sq/ft For 175lb Novice?

[Kramer 0]

A friend has offered to sell me his used rig. It is a Vector 3 with a PD 193 reserve, all that works great for me. However, the main is a 210 sq/ft PD 9-Cell. I have heard several things from several different people. Some have told me that there wouldn't be a problem if I jumped this, others have told me I shouldn't touch it.

I have 14 jumps, probably wouldn't be jumping this rig until I have my A.

I weigh 175.

I have never displayed any problems with my canopy control, I feel very confident (fyi: not too confident enough to do something stupid) under canopy.

But the main thing that bothers me is PD's website wingloading chart for this canopy (found here). If you'll notice, they say that a Novice jumper jumping a 210sq/ft shouldn't weigh more than 136.

I have gotten opinions from quite a broad range of people, most of whom I trust quite a lot...yet they're all telling me different things.

If there's anyone on here who is a rigger...particularly a Master Rigger, would you please let me know that you are a rigger in your reply to this...your opinion carries more weight in my mind.

Thanks guys!!!

-Kramer

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[GravityGirl 0]

You should call PD about the chart. In fact. I am going to tomorrow. It comes as a shock to me.

And just out of curiosity, what qualifications does a rigger have that you feel makes them the best choice to ask about choosing a main canopy?

Not to say they are not a good resource. Because they are. But an instructor, S&TA or someone in the Gear Industry seems a logical choice as well.

Instructors spend a lot of time watching landings and canopy control, evaluating young jumpers performance. Riggers don't necessarily perform that function at a drop zone.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[sundevil777 102]

So much of the answer depends on the condition of the canopy and exposure to sun, dust, etc.

I have the same PD210 main canopy, it still lands me great-, ~250 jumps on it, it and I weigh 50 pounds more than you.

But, it is less forgiving for poor flare technique than more modern canopies, and you should not transition directly from your student gear-do it in steps.

Unfortunately, that doesn't go along with goal of jumping your own gear.

The value of the canopy could be from nothing to a few hundred dollars. Just figure this into your thinking and you are OK. If the main is not worth much, and you are wise enough to realize it, then you should be able to buy it at an appropriate price and shop separately for a main-it is not so hard to do. Nothing wrong with buying the rig for the container and reserve. There is a lot of gear for sale out there.

edit-I'm not a rigger

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Kramer 0]

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And just out of curiosity, what qualifications does a rigger have that you feel makes them the best choice to ask about choosing a main canopy?

Not to say they are not a good resource. Because they are. But an instructor, S&TA or someone in the Gear Industry seems a logical choice as well.

That's not a bad idea at all, one that I had never really thought of.

A lot of people who I've asked about this have said "yada-yada-yada...but that's just my opinion, ask your rigger"

I guess that's why I'm seeking out a rigger's advice.

If you really do call PD tomorrow to ask them about that chart, it would be awesome if you could PM me, or reply in here and tell me what they said. I really appreciate that. Your post was a big help.

-Kramer

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[phoenixlpr 0]

Try a ZP main in the same size. The cfm/F111 main has just only one advantage: price. Theres glide and flare/lift on the ZPs side.

[LuvToFly 0]

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Try a ZP main in the same size. The cfm/F111 main has just only one advantage: price. Theres glide and flare/lift on the ZPs side.

Just keep in mind that some folks find the ZP very difficult to pack because they are so slippery -

If you are packing a mini ZP, the size that a lot of experienced folks use - it can be a lot easier. But stuffing 210SF of ZP into a bag can be very challenging for some -

This is not such an issue for you at this point, but may be something to consider if you intend on packing yourself -

"The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment
of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

[phoenixlpr 0]

"Just keep in mind that some folks find the ZP very difficult to pack because they are so slippery - "
if they are new.......

I suspect he is wondering to buy used gear.

Im sorry but easy to pack is not my nr1 priority.

IMHO I would not buy any F111/cfm canopy.

[Luv2Fall 0]

My limited personal experience as I bought a used F111 canopy -

- Easy to pack

- Very weak flare........you learn to work with it, but you would be better off with ZP.

[phoenixlpr 0]

You may improve your packing, thats up to you, but you cannot improve flare of the canopy.......

[EDYDO 0]

I can't speak about charts, but I do know the PD-210 quite well. When I got back into the sport over two years ago, I bought one in a Javelin. It was the best opening canopy that I have ever owned. It was quick and clean. I weigh 175 and the landings were quite satisfactory. I put about 100 jumps on that one. As a bonus, the price should be really good because the canopies are out of favor with the masses. Also, as mentioned, it's easy to pack. I understand that may not be a priority, but it is to be considered.

As time passed, I wanted something else and I bought a Sabre2 170. The Sabre2 indeed has a great deal more glide and flare, but I am convinced I would have broken something if I had made this move too soon.

Get the PD-210 and move up when you are ready. By the way, I am over 60 and not breaking parts of my body is a real priority with me.

Ed

[phoenixlpr 0]

If I were him I would rent a gear for awhile. You can save more money by not buying any gear, because you dont know what do you need and you dont know what are you going to be capable to handle by jump nr14.

[DBCOOPER 5]

Thats the canopy I got for my kids first rig. Its also what I had.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[Ron 10]

The PD 210 will be a good canopy...

Not the best you could hope for.

The flare will not be as strong as a ZP canopy. But I know folks that weigh more than you that jump them.

The speed will be the same as a ZP canopy, but the flair will be less, and it will wear out faster.

However, if it is a good price, and it is in good shape, I would get it.

Beats rental gear

Edit, I had a 220 square foot 7 cell for my first rig.. I weighed 150 pounds, and it was WAY big...But it safley landed me for over 300 jumps. The 9 cell is going to flare better than it did.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[riggerrob 643]

Go for it!
As long as your local rigger says the canopy is in good condition, it will do you just fine.
My only caveat on F-111 fabric is that the margin for error - on landing - gets tiny when wing-loading exceeds one pound per square foot.
In other words, don't hang more than 210 pounds under that PD-210.
As for flyability: I have more than 1,000 jumps on F-111 canopies in that size range. My first canopy was a 180 square foot Strato-Star that I soon traded for a 230 square foot Strato-Cloud, then Cruislite 220, Shrike 210 and Sidewinder 220. During that period my naked weight grew from 150 to 200 pounds.

Since second-hand F-111 canopies are cheap these days, you will plenty of money left over for jump tickets. Those extra jump tickets are what will improve your landings the most. Currency is everything when learning landings.

[Luv2Fall 0]

Like I said, packing isn't a problem..........you just work with the flaring part..............nope, you really can't improve the flare.

[gerryfuss 0]

I agree. I too own the pd-210 9-cell. I also have about 50 pds on you Kramer. The flare does take a bit of getting used to, I went from beautiful landings to not so pretty when I first got it but after about 7 or 8 jumps I had no problem with it whatsoever. Easy to pack, always have beautiful openings (only have 50 jumps),and more than responsive enough. All in all it's a great beginners parachute and could easily keep you happy for a few hundred jumps. Don't worry too much about downsizing , that comes with due time. Definatly get a rigger to check it over to see what kind of condition it's in. Do you know when it was manufactured? Mine was from 94 but when I purchased it year it only had about 60 jumps total on it and the lines looked like brand new. From what I'm told that canopy is good for at least 1000 jumps. Good luck with the gear buying.

[pilotdave 0]

My first canopy was a PD 9-cell 150, loaded at around .85. I think a PD 9-cell is a great choice for a first canopy. Yeah, the flare does require good timing to get right, and not all my landings were tiptoe soft, but you come in slow enough that an imperfect flare isn't the end of the world.

The canopy flies slower than most modern canopies. But on long spots, I had an easier time making it back than most people since I'd come down so slow. Going into the wind is another story, but I was glad to have a slow flying canopy for the times I had to land off.

But yeah, the best part is packing. You can practice your technique without killing yourself to get the canopy in the bag.

I was amazed when I switched to ZP how different the flare was, but I don't regret jumping F111 for my first 100 jumps either.

Dave

[Ron 10]

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My first canopy was a PD 9-cell 150, loaded at around .85

?????????

Your exit weight is 127.50 pounds???

You weigh around 114 pounds????

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Kramer 0]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I think I am going to buy the rig, get it inspected by my rigger, and then start jumping the F-111. If I don't like it, shell out a few hundred for a used Sabre2 of the same size, or just do that right from the get-go.

Either way, I appreciate knowing that I probably won't kill myself if I do jump it. Thanks again guys. (Feel free to keep adding stuff, I'm listening).

-Kramer

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[Ron 10]

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Either way, I appreciate knowing that I probably won't kill myself if I do jump it

Oh I still think your gonna kill yourself....But it will not be the canopies fault.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[theskydiveguy 0]

Hey,

If its any consolation I jumped a Raven II main for 3 jumps, it blew up on opening, I got it with the rig I bought thrown in ;) Figured I would jump it until it exploded, didnt take long! Then I put a Typhoon 190 in it (Sabre Clone) and it was awesome the difference in the flare, the first landing I even went back up! That was with 60 Square feet less! Ive moved on the an Icarus 169 for the start of this season! Go for the ZP main! With your own rig you can get a demo from any manufacturer that you want!

Good luck and Blue Skies!

~Jeff
Monkey Brother #1
http://www.monkeybrothers.ca

[pilotdave 0]

Quote

Quote

My first canopy was a PD 9-cell 150, loaded at around .85

?????????

Your exit weight is 127.50 pounds???

You weigh around 114 pounds????

Hehe, you prolly thought I did my math wrong. But yeah, thats actually a little more than I weighed when I bought the canopy. I've gained a little weight since then, plus I almost always wear weights now.

Now picture me under a Manta288.
Dave

[Kramer 0]

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Either way, I appreciate knowing that I probably won't kill myself if I do jump it

Oh I still think your gonna kill yourself....But it will not be the canopies fault.

Somehow I knew when I typed that sentence, that Ron would be quoting it.

-Kramer

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[upskywalker 0]

I put about 150 jumps on a Falcon 215 F-111 canopy when I first bought gear. I then downsized to a Hornet 190 z-p. After 30 or so jumps on it, I have just bought a brand new f-111 Falcon to replace it. My weight is usually around 190 to 195. It's not that I didn't like the Hornet, but with the amount of jumps I was getting per year (local DZ closed and now I get about 20-25 jumps per year) I wasn't current enough to keep packing the thing with ease. The Falcon was very easy to pack and land. I just feel more confident with F-111 with so much time between jump trips. Good luck with your choice!