CanuckInUSA 0 #1 January 15, 2004 I'm not going to name names (at least not right now), but I am NOT a very happy camper at this moment. Back in early to mid November, an order for a new container was placed and a delivery date of Jan 23, 2004 was promised. But yesterday I received a call from this manufacturer with questions about the sizing dimensions. Well to my surprise the new container has not even been started and now I was told that it'll be ready by March. What the fudge!!! ... Why do gear manufactures promise delivery dates that do not even come close to meeting (off by five weeks in this case). I likely will never buy another rig from this manufacture and I rest assured I will be telling local people not to buy from them. But I don't feel that naming names over the internet is the right thing to do. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #2 January 15, 2004 Welcome to the industry. It's the way it is. It's the way it has been. Talk to an established dealer before you order next time and they will be able to give you the real world production times, not what the manufacturers quote. When it comes to container manufacturers I find the following ones are coming in closest to the manufacturers estimated completion dates. Mirage Aerodyne Remember almost all of the dates given by manufacturers are ESTIMATED dates.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kuwait_is_hell 0 #3 January 15, 2004 QuoteI rest assured I will be telling local people not to buy from them. But I don't feel that naming names over the internet is the right thing to do. Why not? Name and shame, name and shame! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #4 January 15, 2004 I don't think I have ever received anything on time that I've order from any skydiving manufactuer, container, reserve, main, helmet, etc. Don't blame you for being upset though. I actually canceled the helmets I order because I kept getting 2 weeks, 2 weeks, etc. Well after 18 weeks I said forget it. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #5 January 15, 2004 Keep in mind that Mirage will ship in 6-8 weeks, I imagine you can probably ask for Rush and get it just as quick as the 5 weeks that other manufacturer is giving you... BTW - I'm all for naming slow companies. I've done that repeatedly. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #6 January 15, 2004 Quoteoff by five weeks in this case That's about 15 weeks? That's really not that bad. When you get your rig, I hope you forget about that because new equipment is very nice. You can hate your new equipment, or you can put it on your back and like it. Skydiving is nothing like the corporate world. These companies start when a rigger or 2 get together and start making stuff. Often orders will build beyond the estimated delivery time. How often do you see a rigger with Business degrees and such? Just a thought.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #7 January 15, 2004 I ordered a Mirage over the summe and they told me 4-6 weeks for delivery. I got it in about 3.5Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #8 January 15, 2004 QuoteRemember almost all of the dates given by manufacturers are ESTIMATED dates. A good point that bears repeating. Every manufacturer has at one point or another delivered both before and after the date they estimated they would. Always remember that quoted delivery times or estimated completion dates are just that - estimates. Five weeks "late" isn't bad at all compared to the 10+ weeks "late" some other folks have had to wait lately. Also, things can happen between the time you are given a completion date and when that date comes - many of them things that are out of the manufacturer's control and that could not have been predicted (delayed hardware and fabric shipments are not uncommon). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 9 #9 January 15, 2004 Okay Okay Okay Okay - No naming names right now. How about this - Just make up a word that RHYMS with the offending manufacturer!!!! Flings??? Mavelin??? Garage?? Macer?? Ocon??? Malon?? Hoodoo???? Sinfinity?? Hector?? No naming names just yet, but do any of these sound familiar??=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joyner 0 #10 January 15, 2004 Say what you want about them all. But I got my Odyssey the exact day they told me I would get it. The downside was that the day they told me and actually delivered on was a little more than 6 months after order! Military orders or not, I think Sun Path have to change their approach to civilian customers. Even if they in my opinion have a superior product, people wont wait that long in the long run! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #11 January 15, 2004 What Lisa said: QuoteAlso, things can happen between the time you are given a completion date and when that date comes - many of them things that are out of the manufacturer's control and that could not have been predicted (delayed hardware and fabric shipments are not uncommon). We have no idea what kind of problems they, the manufacture, ran into. What if the special hardware you ordered was late? My son works in a retail store, and late orders happen there all the time. Yes, they have order set things, and they keep putting an order in. The truck arrives, and the order isn't there. So many things happen behind the scenes that we never know about. And I know what rig he ordered. Steve, good for you not naming names. It'll only cause bad blood.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 9 #12 January 15, 2004 QuoteMilitary orders or not, I think Sun Path have to change their approach to civilian customers. Even if they in my opinion have a superior product, people wont wait that long in the long run! I was thinking this same thing too. I look at it this way - nowdays, you really can't go wrong with all the major manufactures. They all make a good, safe, perfectly good product. All it comes down to is what you are looking for and personal preferences. My preferences say that I'm not going to wait that long for a product when I can get something else of equal quality in about 4 weeks....=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #13 January 15, 2004 Then why post? Might be for the same reason people post information in forums without knowing the facts. Estimated delivery date means estimated. It does not take that long to build your rig, it takes that long to build the rigs ordered before yours. Communications. Nuff said. J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivegirl 0 #14 January 15, 2004 Yea, but some manufacturers have a "promise date", not "estimated delivery date". edit: I understand why delivery times can sometimes be longer than expected. Unfortunately, calling something a 'promise date' may be a little misleading to the customer.Pink Mafia Sis #26 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #15 January 15, 2004 QuoteYea, but some manufacturers have a "promise date", not "estimated delivery date". Only one manufacture that I know of has a "Promise Date" rather than an "estimated".---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #16 January 16, 2004 Kelly at Velocity Sports shipped my Infinity in 4.5 weeks after order (back in May '01). He estimated 5 weeks. I understand his lead time has become a bit longer now.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sweetpig 0 #17 January 16, 2004 Weaseling, boy, it's the only thing that seperates us from the animals, except the weasel. -Homer Simpson Imagine if car salesmen had to build the car after they sold it to you? It would be a legitimate defense for murder, wouldn't it? Not to play the devils advocate, but come on. What other business sells you a product, that is produced custom, and depends on the availability of parts and pieces for instance forged metal like in the rig (they only produce these parts a couple of times a year, call Washard or Djans and try to buy some if you don't believe me), and still very mindfully deals with customers that call every day, a grown up version of "Are we ther yet, are we there yet, are we there yet" maybe if everyone stopped calling all the time they could get the receptionist in the back there sewing and the stuff would get built faster! Don't forget about the sescatchuan seal skin bindings Or in a canopy, call PD and ask how much fabric they reject from their two main suppliers. What if they just don't have that fushia you want, I personally want them to reject the bad stuff even if that means that I get my stuff a week or three late. It's all so difficult, lets look at it this way: you are the leading manufacturer and your delivering at 20 weeks, and that is because your product is sooooooo good that everyone wants it, but you are loosing sales to dolphin (sorry to bag on the dolphin, I did own one you know, it is kind of like riding a moped I guess) because they are delivering at 4 weeks, you may feel that it is your civic duty to do anything you can to keep those people off those mopeds, remember those wacky things don't even have seatbelts! Is the lady that sold you that rig that takes too long all that bad? She is just trying to protect you! I guess if I ever can afford a new rig I'll order it when the first snow hits the ground and pray that it buds with the flowers in spring. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrcrackers 0 #18 January 16, 2004 Let's not get too upset. If you know what it like to work in this industry, you would realize these are not mass produced items. These are hand made by a crew of as small as four people. working for next to nothing with no benefits. We do this because we love it. some things are out of our control, like materials. we don't have the bank roll to stock pile some of the things that make up your rig. sometimes people get sick, sometimes shit just happens. Remember the delivery times are ESTIMATES. Try not to over react to a delay. We realize you are exited to get your new toy, but bad mouthing a small company's in a very small comunity (like ours) it not the way to go. I know you didn't orders your rig through the company I work for. but keep these things in mind before you start freaking out and trash talking a company in a industry you don't understand Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unisyn 0 #19 January 16, 2004 When I was working at Mirage Systems there was an official Rush service. Guarenteed! It was NOT CHEAP. You could get a rig within 28hours if you had the cash. Quick deliveries haven't been a problem unless your Sunpath or RWS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dougjumper 0 #20 January 16, 2004 I know you want your gear. Way I look at it..no need to Hurry...For me..I wanna make sure they sew that thing together Right..Its about to save my Ass...so I want it Right...not to mention alot goes into making Rigs. As for a Promise of Delivery Time..I tell em take all the time you need me friend just not 6 months or so... The glass is half full or half empty doesn't matter. Let go and have the Lord guide your path. He will take care of it all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmfreefly 0 #21 January 16, 2004 Yeah, I am going to have to disagree with the idea that on-time delivery can't really happen. My background is Industrial Engineering (manufacturing), and I have to say that most of the practices that skydive mfgs employ are contrary to consistent, timely delivery of product to their customer. Don't tell me a date that you think I want to hear, tell me what you realistically can expect. The fact of the matter is the reason they don't deliver on time is because we put up with it. Granted, the industry is a fairly small one, and thus not HUGE volume. I have -never- gotten custom gear without it being late, in error, or both. 2 rigs, 2 canopies, 2 wingsuits, 1 rig bag, and 7 jumpsuits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #22 January 16, 2004 QuoteWhen I was working at Mirage Systems there was an official Rush service. Guarenteed! It was NOT CHEAP. You could get a rig within 28hours if you had the cash. Quick deliveries haven't been a problem unless your Sunpath or RWS. Wings offers the same service. I think it kind of sucks. Let's say I order a rig with a est. delivery time of 8 weeks over another company who is 12 weeks. Delivery time between these two manufacturers is the deciding factor in this case. I have no use for it before 8 weeks because my DZ is down for the winter. Now just when they get ready to start cutting my rig(mabey the container is built but not the harness), they get a bunch of orders for RUSH delivery. Next thing it is 14 weeks because I get knocked out of line. I should not have to pay for rush service just to keep my place in the line. Rush service should be on the manufacturers time(strictly overtime), not on my time(waiting) Should I be penalized just because someone is willing to pay more to cut in line? Josh That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #23 January 16, 2004 QuoteEstimated delivery date means estimated. It does not take that long to build your rig, it takes that long to build the rigs ordered before yours. Communications. Nuff said. An estimate should be reasonable. Promising gear in 10 weeks and delivering in 15 or 20 is a bit unreasonable, I think. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #24 January 16, 2004 QuoteShould I be penalized just because someone is willing to pay more to cut in line? Why not. I'm not saying it's fair, but who said life is? Its a capitalistic, free enterprise, where money talks. It's their company and they can do as they like. You can always take your business elsewhere. People continue to try to compare the "real world" of consumerism to the skydiving industry. It doesn't work. The industry is it's own beast. Everyone thinks it could be done better. Everyone is welcom to try, but be forewarned, the road to success in the skydiving equipment industry is strewn with the carcuses of thoes many that fell by the wayside. Some big ones are in there too......---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #25 January 16, 2004 QuoteSome big ones are in there too...... Who? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
