McConkey tailgate?

[brits17 0]

Zennie and I did our first McConkey's last night, what great fun! We both loosely tailgated the control lines, and inner C's and D's. Do you, and why or why not?

_______________________
aerialkinetics.com

[Bryguy1224 12]

I also use a tailgate. On typical slider down jumps I use a rubber band cut in half and wrapped 3 times around the tail gate. No larks head, just 3 wraps. I lose a rubber band on every jump. When I do a Mckonkey I take 2 wraps rather than 3. it keeps the lines together nice and prevents line overs. The was a reported line over on a Mckonkey w/out a tailgate in April. Since I heard that I always use a tailgate.

[DexterBase 1]

I didn't vote because I'm in the middle on this one. I think as long as you have a positive launch, the lines will stay tensioned making a lineover really unlikely.

I usually use a tailgate because it keeps the canopy in a neat bundle while you're setting up to do the jump. It makes it easy and convenient, but I do most of my McConkeys on spans where an offheading doesn't mean much. I do think that the tailgate may slightly increase your odds of having an offheading opening. See this post

On a serious jump where an offheading could result in an object strike, I would prefer to spend more time preparing the canopy so that I don't need the tailgate.

[TomAiello 26]

I generally do not use tailgates on McConkeys. Here's my reasoning.

Putting a tailgate on a McConkey brings the canopy into a tighter bundle down there at the bottom of the lines. That bundle is much easier to swing around into an off-heading position. With proper line tension (i.e. no slack through the maneuver), it ought to be pretty much impossible to have a line over anyway. Note that the same argument applies to the use of a slider (but more so, since if you lose line tension with a slider, you can--I've seen it--end up with a slider up line over).

The only reason I can see to put a tailgate onto a McConkey is to bring the bundle together so that wind doesn't blow it around. My solution to this problem is just not to do McConkey's in significant wind (i.e. enough to blow the canopy around). If I was going to use a tailgate to gather the McConkey canopy in this kind of situation, I'd certainly _only_ try it off a nice friendly span.

McConkey's done properly (maintaining tension), without tailgates, have given me a nearly perfect heading rate.

My comments are based on around 60 McConkey's, off 9 objects (3 Buildings, 1 Antenna, 3 Spans, 2 Earth). Take them with a grain of salt, as I don't believe anyone has enough experience with these maneuvers to really be considered an expert.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[motherhucker 0]

I dont.
once you've seen a tailgate hangup, open canopy jumps w/ tailgate kind of pucker me up.
mh

edit: I like masking tape for this purpose though.

[460 0]

I thought Jimmy P. from Vertigo commented on how important it is to use the tailgate on McConkey jumps. If in use, don't restrict the tailgate too much so as to cause any sort of hangup.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[TomAiello 26]

Do you know why Jimmy recommended it?

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[DexterBase 1]

I'm not sure, but Marta recommends it as well.

[460 0]

I think I remember, but it would be better if he posted himself. The essence of it was that a lineover was much more common without the brakes stowed since the brake lines are longer and much more freedom to move unpredictably. From the posting by Jimmy, it read as if he had seen or experienced lineover(s) doing McConkeys. A McConkey lineover would definitely suck! Imagine a spin 8 feet from the object.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[hookitt 1]

Quote

...without the brakes stowed

I was unaware that a McConkey with out stowing the brakes is common. How Common is it?

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[460 0]

Please look up Jimmy's post. I just remember the punchline...

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[TomAiello 26]

I've seen McConkey line overs. I've even seen them slider up.

They've always happened when someone either (a) jumped in wind, or (b) didn't maintain tension, or (c) both.

I've never done a McConkey without setting the brakes. Opening that close to the object, I can't imagine going without the brakes set.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 26]

Here.

Quote

McConkeys are definitely prone to line overs. If you slow the video, you will notice that when the jumper is parallel to the horizon facing up, the canopy is also facing nose up and falling at the same speed(approx.) as the jumper. This means the worst possible scenario. The relative wind is blowing directly at the tail wanting to move the tail around to the front of the canopy. Securing the brake lines into the tail gate(normal set up) for slider down and using a rubber band on a tab at the trailing edge center of the slider to contain the brake lines(or a similar configuration) for slider up should be thought of as mandatory for these exits.

Just an opinion...
Jimmy P.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[brits17 0]

Quote

edit: I like masking tape for this purpose though.

Thats what we actually used. Halved the width of the tape, and used a single wrap.

_______________________
aerialkinetics.com

[Rauk 0]

What I have found works well for me, not producing any off headings, i use the first bite rubber band to set the tailgate with just enough wraps to keep it closed (not much at all, it's more to keep the tail up than anything.) I find that this keeps the tail up and doesn't present the bottom skin as much. I also spend more time than a lot of people I have seen dressing my canopy, and I think that may help a lot with heading, but I have only done about a dozen rollovers, or variations.

[peterk 0]

You shouldn't post about things that you don't know anything about,

Argh, newbie punks...

Shit!

---------------
Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime

[base311 0]

Remember when BASE jumpers used to be content with hucking the tip of a building crane overhanging a phatass parking lot???

oh well. Rubber bands be damned!!!!

Luv and latex,
Gardner

[Rauk 0]

One word. Steamroller. just kidding

[base587 0]

Quote

I've seen McConkey line overs. I've even seen them slider up.

They've always happened when someone either (a) jumped in wind, or (b) didn't maintain tension, or (c) both.

I've never done a McConkey without setting the brakes. Opening that close to the object, I can't imagine going without the brakes set.

A couple of years ago Clif Hux was trying rollovers without the brakes set...just holding onto the toggles...and had at least one lineover (possibly 2?) using this method, then summarily abandoned it.

_________________________________________________

As for the rest of the debate:

The Unpacked Jumping Mantra...repeat after me...."Minimum prep/maximum simplicity"

I think I've done about 6 McConkeys from a 165 ft S with and without tailgate. At this height the behaviour of the 'deploying' canopy is quite apparent. My bias is to go without because of the reasons you've stated (easier to handle, better on headings) but also because of faster, smoother inflation.

Same thing with TARDs...I go without.

If I was more inclined to jump tall bridges without object strike potential...a tailgate doesn't seem like a bad idea.

What Jimmy P says is true regarding the tail in front of the nose. There are a few different ways to keep the tail up out of the way without using a tailgate.

BTW If you do use a tailgate or masking tape...packed or unpacked... and you want to make a LIGHT wrap and still avoid a lineover, I think it's still important to maintain a TIGHT wrap, not LOOSE...i.e. center C, D and control lines cannot easily slide within the bundle....BUT make less wraps on the rubber band (or masking tape) so it requires less tension to come undone.

[peterk 0]

That sucks, thought I was sending a PM to a friend, and it came out as a posting... I'll put the beer down,

---------------
Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime

[Rauk 0]

hehehe

That's ok, I've accepted it, I am a newbie punk

[Rauk 0]

So, from 165, now would you have done so low if it was not a bridge. I was trying to get an idea for how low people are calling acceptable for rollovers and such. I was contemplating one off of a 270' "B", but didn't get the chance while I was there. Of course I imagine the height to vary depending on the object. Tom, it sounds like you have some experience as well, what do you think on height, anyone else have an opinion?

[base587 0]

Some of my crap from last year...

http://dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=368253;guest=5977717#368253

http://blincmagazine.com/forum/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=7&topic_id=15206&mesg_id=15206&listing_type=search#15253

Also, In June's 'Skydiving' .."McConkey Gone Bad" is a tailgated canopy with a 2-3 mph crosswind. The jumper's experience saved him from injury.

[TomAiello 26]

I'd say that 270' is fine. I'd guess that if you can spread the canopy wide (say have helpers pull your outside A lines out 10 feet to your left and right), you can probably get open about as fast as a static line. Sticking with K.I.R.S. (Keep It Retarded, Stupid) and hanging it all down from the jumper, I'd say you'll be open somewhere between a static line and a well executed freefall. Call it, say, 150' minimum, if everything goes exactly right. Maybe 200' to be on the safe (ish) side.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Rauk 0]

Bringing this back to life, I had thoughts about the difference between slider up and slider down rollovers. Mostly questioning the height you would be "in the saddle". Has anyone had enough variance to notice a great difference in the altitude between the two?