John4455 0 #1 January 13, 2004 If you have a harness/container that is made for the larger Three rings, is it not a good idea to change your risers to mini risers with the little rings? I have seen people with rigs like that, but I heard someone make a comment that you should never do that. I don't remember why. How do ya like it Johnny? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #2 January 13, 2004 There's no point - the big three rings are even more safe than the mini ones. Its not a safety issue, its a "look cool" issue. Small rings were not actually a "step forward". Its not just a case of sticking some mini rings on there ether, as the big ring will be oversized and the system wont work to spec. You have to change the big ring out itself. If guess if you want it that bad you can get a suitably qualified rigger to swap out the rings but you'd be paying way more than I would consider the "improvement" in looks is worth. Thats a load bearing point and any work is significant. I'd say stick with the big rings - there's nothing whatsoever wrong with them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #3 January 13, 2004 QuoteIts not a safety issue, its a "look cool" issue. While I dont disagree with your saying it is not a safety issue. I do disagree on the "look cool" issue. I have mini risers not because I want to look cool. I have them because for me when i do front riser landings it is much easier for me to grasp type XVII that it is for me to grasp type VIII. it's as simple as that for me. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John4455 0 #4 January 13, 2004 It is not an issue with looking cool or anything like that. I have no problems with the large risers or rings. It is strictly for convenience, in case I want to transfer the canopy to my other rig as I sometimes do. I would like opinions of any riggers out there. How do ya like it Johnny? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #5 January 13, 2004 fair enough - damn I should read peoples profiles before opening my mouth - I assumed it was a newbie question and we all know what assuming does... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #6 January 13, 2004 I think the question is mini risers on large harness rings. Not changing the harness ring. I've don't it, others have done it, but if I remember right, Bill?, it's not recommended. Too early for me to think that clear.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John4455 0 #7 January 13, 2004 Yes that is the question. Maybe I didn't word it right. How do ya like it Johnny? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #8 January 13, 2004 Newbie questions are okay. It is also okay to install mini-ring risers on large harness rings. This question came up during my Rigger A course 20 years ago when the instructor reassured us that it was okay to install (mini ring) Parachutes de France risers on Swift harnesses (the first rig with small harness rings). He also said that it was okay to install Swift risers on Wonderhogs (large harness rings). I have done it dozens of times and have hundreds of jumps on that configuration, probably because I was too lazy to rip apart the shoulder junction and re-sew it with small harness rings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #9 January 13, 2004 Has anyone seen large 3-rings (all of them large, both riser rings and harness ring) with Type 17 risers. On many order forms it is not even an option... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #10 January 13, 2004 I have the same setup as well. Personally, I think it looks a bit silly. I did it to give my sidemount camera a little more room. Worked great. One cutaway with the smaller risers - didn't seem any different than the larger risers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #11 January 13, 2004 I cannot remember ever seeing large 3-rings on mini (1 inch wide, Type 17 webbing) risers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #12 January 13, 2004 QuoteI think the question is mini risers on large harness rings. Not changing the harness ring. I've don't it, others have done it, but if I remember right, Bill?, it's not recommended. Too early for me to think that clear. I have seen this and asked a rigger and he said it's OK for the harness ring to be oversized; I guess the system will perform properly if the overlaps between the three webbed rings are all in spec, and using risers designed for small harness rings on a harness with large rings does not upset this (or not much). Please note that this is hearsay passed on by a 61-jump wonder. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #13 January 13, 2004 QuoteHas anyone seen large 3-rings (all of them large, both riser rings and harness ring) with Type 17 risers. On many order forms it is not even an option... From my experience most of the manufactures have that avaliable on their order forms, and those few that don't will most often do it as a special order. Manufactures that offer it on their order forms include: Mirage Systems (G3 & (G4.1) Velocity Sports Equipment (Infinity) Sunpath (Javelin & Odyssey) Rigging Innovations (Talon & Voodoo) I'm pretty sure Sunrise Rigging (Wings) will build them that way if you like. I'd have to chek with Relative Workshop (Vector 3).---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #14 January 13, 2004 I've seen them once or twice. Not very usual, as you can stick mini-ringed risers onto large base rings... The tolerances are a bit more easily managed on larger ring sets so they should (in theory) be more likely to be built correctly and function correctly, but I suppose the person to ask about true functionality would be Bill. Can't really think of a reason why it wouldn't be just fine... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #15 January 13, 2004 If I may post someone else's work, the following is a very informative posting from the PIA riggers bulletin board and covers all sorts of ring & riser combinations. Most pertinant to the current question is the bit about how recent mini risers (with mini rings) are not as compatible with large harness rings as the earlier (but sometimes weaker) mini risers (with mini rings). ====================== 3-ring question - (tk@relativeworkshop.com) 07-25-02 Can risers with mini 3-rings be used with a harness/container with a standard size ring? In most cases, the combination will work just fine. But you have to understand that there are many different types of harness rings and a plethora of manufacturers producing mini 3-Ring risers, and they're not all making them the same! And what is a “standard size ring” anyway? I can only speak for Relative Workshop and the products we produce. Here is a response I sent to one of our dealers recently that covers this topic. Relative Workshop’s Type 8 & Type 17 "mini-ring risers" are compatible with most other H/C systems using large harness rings that are currently available. They were designed that way many years ago. During our many test jumps, when we carry three (3) canopies, the first two canopies are mounted on mini-ring Type 17 risers and connected to the same large harness ring. (Either the 5010 ring or the RW-1 harness ring) In other words, two (2) risers per ring. We've experienced no problems with this set-up over the years. Here's a short list of large harness rings that are compatible with T-8 & T-17 mini-ring risers, followed by a list of mini harness rings that are also known to be compatible. Compatible Large Harness Rings: 5010 Ring (round ring-original circa 1975); RW-1 (slotted ring-original); and the RW-10 (slotted ring-stronger version), and similar variants produced by foreign manufacturers. Compatible Small Harness Rings: RW-5, RW-7, RW-8, RW-8S (Stainless), and similar variants produced by foreign manufacturers. Note: RW-5 and RW-7 were discontinued for several reasons: 1) The cross-section was very small, increasing the possibility of "knife-edge" damage to the riser's webbing. 2) As Spectra (Microline) became more popular, increased shock-load transmission to the riser would eventually result in ring deformation, so the cross-section thickness and overall strength was enlarged. Hence the evolution of the RW-8 slotted ring. In early 1998, Relative Workshop conducted a six month evaluation of the 3-Ring Release System. The results of those tests lead to a change in riser construction specifications that culminated in the latest specs that we've been using since August 1998. We produce a manual that is available to other manufacturers of risers so they to can make use of the latest riser technology. A bad combination is the post 1998 spec Type-8 mini-ring riser with the Rw-10 ring, as this cuts down the mechanical arm. Mini risers built to pre-1998 specs are compatible with the RW-10 ring because there is enough room between the rings so the mechanical leverage is not hampered. But those risers should be grounded due to their lighter load capacity, especially when used with a Spectra lined canopy. (Many have failed in actual use during the mid 90's) They fail at 2500 lbs. The latest spec Type 17 riser will now fail at 3500-3700 lbs. The large harness ring that is known to be "incompatible" is the RW-9. This ring is often referred to as the "Canadian Ring" as it was first known to be used on rigs built for the Canadian military. The cross-section of this ring is very large, which causes the incompatibility. The RW-9's most unique characteristic, other than its size, is the flat surface at the top of the ring (the part that comes in contact with the riser) This flat edge allows for more even loading across the surface of the riser's webbing, also enhancing the riser's ability to handle heavier loads with less resultant damage. Information submitted by T.K. DONLE, Relative Workshop, Deland, Florida, USA (RWS/Bill Booth, designer & patent holder of the 3-Ring Release System) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #16 January 13, 2004 Quotefair enough - damn I should read peoples profiles before opening my mouth - I assumed it was a newbie question and we all know what assuming does... Newbie or not. You shouldn't give mis information. Where did you get the idea that mini-risers were designs for aesthetics? Judging by your profile, you are not exactly and "Old-Timer". ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #17 January 14, 2004 Quote3-ring question - (tk@relativeworkshop.com) 07-25-02 Can risers with mini 3-rings be used with a harness/container with a standard size ring? In most cases, the combination will work just fine. But you have to understand that..... Now that kicks ass. Thanks for posting it. I love it when you find technical nuggets like this one... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John4455 0 #18 January 14, 2004 Sounds like a definite "maybe" How do ya like it Johnny? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smooth 0 #19 January 14, 2004 My harness/container has large rings - canopies that I've recently demoed came with mini-risers so from experience I can say that the combination can be successfully jumped this way - BUT - I never had to cutaway this combination. The risers separated ok on the ground though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #20 December 6, 2004 Type 8 and type 17 risers can both take either type of rings as far as I know. As far as having mini rings on type 8 risers...I have seen this many times. I have mini rings on my type 8 risers that I have on my Lightning for CRW. But for the basic question of this thread, mini rings are ok to jump with a large harness ring. I do on one of my rigs. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
