PD or Smart

[nightjumps 1]

Riggers: I need your opinion.

I've decided to get a new reserve. I've done homework on both.

PD: 193r Max W/L 254 Long-time company history.

Aerodyne: Smart 220 Max W/L 264, ISO 9001 Certified. They say tested above, but don't give the specifics of the testing.

Your vote and thoughts would be appreciated.

[rigging65 0]

You might also consider the Precision Aerodynamics rMax 208 or 228 (245 lb and 264 lb. 'Expert' loadings respectively).

They're my personal favorite...mostly because I was there when the high weight, high speed tests were done. Very impressive...

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[PhreeZone 20]

It seems strange that you are going for such a difference in wing size. PD has a 218 that is closer in size to the Smart. Why was this not an option for you?

I'd go with PD, Raven Max or Smart... all should be good choices.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[rigging65 0]

Actually, the 193 is significantly bigger than 193 sq. ft., so I would guess that the 193 vs. 220 comparison is probably valid.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, as I've only had my hands on a few Smart reserves, but they seem to be more in line with their published sizes...as opposed to PD's 'magic measurements'.

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[mjosparky 4]

Keith,
I believe ISO 9100 is a method of doing busness, not of testing canopies.
Sparky
PS: I would go with the PD.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[nightjumps 1]

Pack volume for a Wings container built to house a 249 Dash M is closer to the PDr 193 in pack volume than the PDr 218.

[nightjumps 1]

You are correct about ISO 9001. It is a certification of the manufacturing process, not the specific testing.

I think I have my answer folks: I'm going with PD. Thanks for all your input.

[END OF THREAD]

[TALONSKY 0]

Truely, the best way to make up your mind is to demo both. I demoed a PD 143 loaded 1.67 to 1 and it flew great. It also allows you to truely know how your reserve flies before you are under it in an emergency
Kirk

[helldog 0]

Due to broken lines i had the opportunity to ride the Smart 220. I liked the result...down safe and sound. It opened quickly and flew beautifully. Thats my 2 cents
Blue ones
Jim

[Harksaw 0]

Furthermore about ISO certification, it doesn't matter what their process is as long as they have their process documented and they follow the documentation. You could make a parachute out of cotton candy and get ISO certification if everyone at your company follows their documented procedures.

__________________________________________________
I started skydiving for the money and the chicks. Oh, wait.

[linestretch 0]

Furthermore about ISO certification***

ISO is for quality assurance purposes, and from working in the field where the company had ISO privileges, it was a pain in the ass. BUT, with a company having ISO, they "should" have a much better and thorough QA process, therefore, not letting screwups get out the door, or less likely anyway.

my pics & stuff!

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

Furthermore about ISO certification, it doesn't matter what their process is as long as they have their process documented and they follow the documentation. You could make a parachute out of cotton candy and get ISO certification if everyone at your company follows their documented procedures.

Nice that you pointed that out. It's important, kids. ISO 9000 certs don't mean a damn thing with regards to the quality of a product. Except, I suppose, that all of the widgets will be of similar quality.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[pilotdave 0]

Depends how you define quality. I'd say if you have two factories producing the same product, but one is certified and the other has a poor quality assurance department, the certified factory is putting out a higher quality product. Even though the majority of the items they produce may be identical. Quality control ADDS quality to a product, at least the way I'm defining quality.

I realize you mean that ISO 9000 certification doesn't mean their products are better than another's. But it does mean, in theory, the products will be produced to spec.

Dave

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

But it does mean, in theory, the products will be produced to spec.

Yes, it does, you are correct. ISO9K though, still allows for crap products. A company that builds a crap spec with ISO9K will produce a mountain of crap products.

ISO9K doesn't mean dick, except that a company has documented, and follows, its processes and procedures. It's about consistency, rather than quality.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[GravityGirl 0]

I've jumped both. And I would jump either or. If you want to get down to it. I like the way the PD flys better. The flares are comperable. The construction is good on both.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[nightjumps 1]

Thank you, Bonnie. I purchased a PD yesterday. My apologies for not giving you guys the opportunity to bid.

I went to your web site this morning to place in my "Favorites" for future reference and it would appear there is a problem with your site's security certificate. The name on the security certificate is either invalid or does not match the name of the site. I'll just send this directly to your webmaster.

[Tonto 1]

ISO 9001 is a business management system.

There is not a single ISO technical quality requirement.
The company defines what it does, and then does what it defined unless a better way is found, which generates a revision change.

What ISO 9001 does mean, is that if you have a problem with the product, a very clear path exists for the company to satisfy the client once they complain.

Of course, if that problem is not survivable, then someone would need to submit the complaint on your behalf, due to the nature of their product.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Ron 10]

I know you have already bought it...

But my take.

Never be the first on the block with the new toy.

I wait two years before I buy a new product.

The list of cool new products that didn't live up to the hype, or were even dangerous is quite long.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Hooknswoop 19]

I looked over the Smart at Eloy

What I liked:

Lots of re-enforcement tape, including span-wise bottom skin tape. It is built tough and has good, quality construction.

What I didn’t like:

Only 4 plastic slider stops instead of 6 metal slider stops.
One bar-tack across the top of the slider stops. (I have seen a bar-tack blow out of tandem mains)

Derek

[nightjumps 1]

Since I brought up ISO 9001, the thread seems to have migrated in that direction. The reason I brought up ISO9K is not because it guarantees any specific product's quality; it guarantees that there is a better process in place to catch manufacturing flaws anywhere in the process.

Rather than the antiquated system of quality control whereby one picks "X" number of final products for random testing and statistically factors "Y" for the whole lot as an acceptable ratio of error -

ISO9K ensures that anyone at any point in the manufacturing process can hit the "Stop" button if they see any flaws in any product. The goal being that those items can be pulled out, sent to the front of the line for remanufacture and/or taken out and discarded.

Personally, I applaud Aerodyne for taking the steps to go through what can be a brutally difficult certification. I've taken more than one company through the ISO certification process. Those that emerge on the other side haven taken great steps in changing their manufacturing environment from one of "Quality Control" to one of "Quality Assurance."

And assuring the customer is what generates sales. Especially in an industry where one's life literally rests in the hands of the manufacturing process. I "believe" that over time, Aerodyne is going to be a global force in the parachute industry for having taken this path. Their leadership is to be congratulated for moving in this direction.

I "suspect" that others in the parachute industry will be forced to take the same path.

[JackC 0]

Quote

What I didn?t like:

Only 4 plastic slider stops instead of 6 metal slider stops.
One bar-tack across the top of the slider stops. (I have seen a bar-tack blow out of tandem mains)

Derek

Derek,

Not being a rigger and very new to the sport I don't understand. Could you explain what that means please? Where are the extra two slider stops situated, why are they needed, is plastic a problem and what happens if they aren't there? What happens if the bar tacks fail? Do PD do it better?

I'm also debating PDr vs Smart and want to make as informed a decision as I can.

Much appreciated.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Just my opinion, but if the plastice slider stops on the stabilizers break, the slider go up into the stabilizer, jamming it up at the canopy. If the bar-tack that holds the slider stops in place fails, same thing.

The other 2 are on the stabilizers also on other reserves. They are almost always metal.

Derek